Solicitor wants to charge €600 for confirming that they witnessed a will?

600 Euro for this simple service seems excessive.

From the Incorporated Law Society website: https://www.lawsociety.ie/public/Complaints-against-solicitors

From 7 October 2019, the Legal Services Regulatory Authority (LSRA) deals with complaints against solicitors. Complaints about a solicitor or enquiries about making a complaint should be referred to the Authority (LSRA). The contact details for the LSRA are:

Address: LSRA, PO Box 12906, Dublin 7
Phone: 01 8592911
General queries email: [email protected]
Complaints email: [email protected]
Website: www.lsra.ie/make-a-complaint/
 
I am not saying that this is cheap, but the 'almost 600' is clearly a fee of €450 or maybe €475 + VAT + Outlay.

The solicitor may let this matter languish on a 'misc' file, but more likely will open a separate matter on their system. Admin cost. No avoiding it.

This is because for large matters and small, you must document your regulatory compliance. I am not saying that no corners are ever cut, but the solicitor may take the view that he needs AML compliance docs on the matter file. More time, more money.

Regardless of how rudimentary, the solicitor is also supposed to have a risk assessment on the file. A very cautious solicitor might want to see the original will again before being happy to swear up.

All of this has to be stored in case the solicitor is later called upon to prove what he did and why he did it.

So, not cheap, but nor is it fair to describe as *just sign a form".
 
As pointed out by the OP and someone else along the way, the original solicitor may well have waived some charge when the service was being provided on the condition or expectation that the probate work would be given their way. Either way I would even expect anything that requires a qualified professional to have a minimum charge which I would think a bit more than a tenner.
 
elcato said:
As pointed out by the OP and someone else along the way, the original solicitor may well have waived some charge when the service was being provided on the condition or expectation that the probate work would be given their way. Either way I would even expect anything that requires a qualified professional to have a minimum charge which I would think a bit more than a tenner.
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Who seriously said it should be a tenner? Please don't take a clearly sarcastic comment out of context.

So first we had mf1 implying things which weren't said were said and now elacto is at the same silly gambit. Is that what one does when one's argument is paper thin?!

In case a few more posters feel like making the same ridiculous point.........Nobody has yet said that solicitors should do a job for nothing or for a €10. (I had to put the "yet" because for sure some wisecrack will now do it!:))
 
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I know we live in inflationary times, but for 600 euro the solicitor could enjoy a pint with live music in Temple bar every day after work for 3 months!

For confirming their own signature!
 
RonnieShinbal88 said:
For confirming their own signature!
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Nope. For swearing that on a particular date a particular person signed a particular document in his presence and the presence of another person and that he and that other person then signed in presence of each other. And he has to document on his file that he has checked his own records etc. And he must maintain the records of this admittedly modest work, along with the required regulatory compliance docs. This is what a heavily regulated legal profession looks like. It costs money.

It is not rocket science, but nor is it quite as simple as "yup, looks like my signature alright"
 
Salvadore said:
The Probate Office has reverted to the effect that they require an Affidavit of Attesting Witness in respect of one of the two witnesses to the will. In my late mother-in-law’s case, these were a solicitor and legal executive of the firm in which the will was made.
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Is it the signature of the witness or the legal executive?

I could imagine if the legal executive no longer works then it would indeed not be straightforward to produce the affidavit.
 
jasdpace@gmail. said:
Who seriously said it should be a tenner? Please don't take a clearly sarcastic comment out of context.

So first we had mf1 implying things which weren't said were said and now elacto is at the same silly gambit. Is that what one does when one's argument is paper thin?!

In case a few more posters feel like making the same ridiculous point.........Nobody has yet said that solicitors should do a job for nothing or for a €10. (I had to put the "yet" because for sure some wisecrack will now do it!:))
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€10 was mentioned as the witnessing solicitors fee. Its a standard fee for at a notary public, peace commissioner, solicitor or commissioner of Oaths.
 
One way of valuing a job (or the investment in training required to execute) is in estimating how easy it would be to automate it. Blockchain and digital signatures will get rid of all of the faff outlined here - and the associated 600 euro charges to confirm someone signed a contract.

If this were my line of work I'd be charging a reasonable amount to avoid making it worth peoples time in offering an automated solution, or possibly that's one for the Law Society to encourage.

Edit:
It seems there is already some movement in this direction already:

Electronic Signatures for the Legal Industry | jSign

Get legally binding electronic signatures with jSign. Save time and money by having legal documents signed online.
www.jsign.com www.jsign.com
 
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Salvadore said:
My wife is currently administering her late mother’s estate. It’s an uncomplicated will, with my wife named as the sole executor and sole beneficiary so she’s decided to seek probate herself without engaging a solicitor.

The Probate Office has reverted to the effect that they require an Affidavit of Attesting Witness in respect of one of the two witnesses to the will. In my late mother-in-law’s case, these were a solicitor and legal executive of the firm in which the will was made.

As I understand it (although I’m open to correction), the affidavit is just a confirmation by a witness that they did indeed witness the production of the will. Nothing other than that.

My wife wrote to the firm concerned seeking the affidavit. They’re seeking almost €600 to do so which seems excessive. I suspect they may be irked at not being engaged to administer the will through the Probate Office and are seeking to make at least some return.

In others’ experience, is €600 the going rate for what seems like a relatively low-level administrative task?

Also, is it possible, when making a will, to have it witnessed by a friend or relative who, presumably, wouldn’t ask for €600 to subsequently confirm that, yes, that is their signature on the will. This would seem like an obvious way to avoid a potentially substantial legal bill.
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I recently completed probate for my late mothers estate. It was tricky, and time consuming, but very achievable, and I'm so glad I did it myself - we saved between 6 and 9K doing so, so persevere with it. I wasn't asked for this myself (Mam and Dad used free legal aid to make their wills) but from a quick google it seems if the signature if feeble or illegible that you have to have Affidavit of Attesting Witness. I don't see any way around this, there are costs involved in doing probate, but when doing yourself, and in the relative scheme of things, they aren't significant. This sounds to be one of those costs that you have to accept.

Good luck with the process.
 
Many thanks to everyone for all the replies. They’re very informative and helpful.

The replies pretty much confirm what I suspected. At the high end, but In this case, we’re over the proverbial barrel and there’s no option but to pucker up and pay.

I guess what really galls is that my in-laws were very good clients of the solicitors firm going back decades. It’s a small country town where the local solicitor is king. They’d be disappointed to think they were still being wrung out for the last after death for the most that could possibly be extracted. Human nature I suppose.

mf1 said:
5. Also, is it possible, when making a will, to have it witnessed by a friend or relative who, presumably, wouldn’t ask for €600 to subsequently confirm that, yes, that is their signature on the will. This would seem like an obvious way to avoid a potentially substantial legal bill.

Yes. But there is a better chance of the Will getting through Probate if it has been drafted by a solicitor.
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In this case, the Will comprises a single paragraph that could have been drafted by a 12 year old.

However, I was referring to a witness to a will drafted by a solicitor. If I ultimately seek an affidavit from a non-solicitor witness, it seems I would circumvent the need to pay €600. (Unless this other witness also recognises they have me by the proverbials).
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
Is it the signature of the witness or the legal executive?

I could imagine if the legal executive no longer works then it would indeed not be straightforward to produce the affidavit.
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The two witnesses were the solicitor and the legal executive. Either one would do but as they both work for the same firm, the 600 fee would apply either way.

Hence, my query as to whether, in completing a will with a solicitor, I could bring along my own witness who wouldn’t charge my executor 600 euro to confirm that he had done so.
 
Interesting post as I am going to a solicitor next week for my will.
I am wondering to avoid any potential future issues should I ask for my receipt to clearly state drafting & witnessing will for Mr xyz on date abc ?
 
I think it's a bit rich asking for €600 to sign the Affidavit. Could you draft the Affidavit of Attesting witness yourself, ( attaching a certified copy will and correspondence from Probate Officer)post it to the Solicitor to sign and return in prepaid envelope or call in whichever suits them. They cant then charge for drafting the affidavit. Then try re- negotiate the fee pointing out in a nice way the business the deceased gave the practice over the years, that it is a relatively small estate which can not bear such fees, and the time involved by the Solicitor is miniscule. If the Solicitor drags his heels then I think I myself would ring the Solicitor and threaten to complain to the PRSA and write an advese ( but true) google review
This is just an example of the monopoly solicitors have in Ireland. I just can't believe what some other commentators have said to justify the exorbitant fee. The Solicicitor will remember if he witnessed the will or not, he will recognise his own signature. It sounds like he is getting his " pound of flesh" when he wasn't hired to extract the Probate.
 
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A99_01 said:
Interesting post as I am going to a solicitor next week for my will.
I am wondering to avoid any potential future issues should I ask for my receipt to clearly state drafting & witnessing will for Mr xyz on date abc ?
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Attempting to contrive the future micromanagement of the affairs of one's estate from beyond the grave is generally accepted as being a very very bad idea that is only likely to bring trouble and extra expanse on your family after you're gone.
 
A99_01 said:
Interesting post as I am going to a solicitor next week for my will.
I am wondering to avoid any potential future issues should I ask for my receipt to clearly state drafting & witnessing will for Mr xyz on date abc ?
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Perhaps contact the RNLI who organise a free will service. The money saved in making the will could then be used for any subsequent costs.
 
Silversurfer said:
Perhaps contact the RNLI who organise a free will service. The money saved in making the will could then be used for any subsequent costs.
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There's no such thing as a free will. Any huckster can offer something for free in the knowledge that they're in line for a large fee in due course. Many recently bereaved relatives understandably lack the stomach to shop around among solicitors in the aftermath of a death.
 
I am surprised that this discussion is still exercising people. The 450+VAT which the solicitor is charging is not especially cheap, but the idea that it constitutes overcharging that could usefully be reported to a regulatory body is just nonsense.

There was a time when many "walk in" items of legal services could attract a very.modest charge (and often might not be charged for at all). That type of fee structure is no longer viable. It has been regulated out of existence. Some solicitors (myself included) cling to old ways of doing things- but the fact is that under our regulatory regime, for any job, no matter how small (if everything is done correctly) the clock doesn't start at zero. It starts somewhere around 200+VAT.
 
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