Solicitor Fees..

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vincentgav

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108
Hi Everyone,

So, we've agreed a set with with our conveyancing solicitor, a family friend, often used for all sorts of matters over the years.

It seems that they passed it over to another solicitor in their (same firm) firm that we've been dealing with since then.

We've just received countersigned contracts, delighted etc, then we get a phone call from this solicitor. 'I'm sorry but this fee that XXXXX gave you isn't adequate for what had to be done, it's not going to cover the work that was put in.' I advised them that I had been sent a written cost for disbursements, stamp duty, etc, with the set fee, they repeated; 'That was for a standard sale, this was anything but standard, this is set out in the terms of engagement' that I didn't receive. I then received the terms of engagement in an email an hour later, with 'sign and return please'. So now if I sign that, what, 'here's your final bill'?

Now, I've replied in writing that I was given a set cost, discounted (granted) due to being a family friend and that I'd expect that to be honoured. I didn't receive any TOE to sign, this is the first time it's been raised, NOW it arrives when they see it's not on file... imagine that. The solicitor has been very slow and very hard to get on the phone at the best of times, I've had to hound them for everything and we're 2 months behind schedule. It's all been way too passive, the solicitor took way too long and didn't fight to get us across the line any quicker, I had to do it all myself.

What's the story here?

It's VERY irritating to be asked for more fees now and that TOE being sent through at this late stage is a bit insulting, I'm not stupid. I know well that signing that means agreeing to the final bill that's now tipped to be almost double what was quoted. I don't feel happy to do so, given the slow responses and delays. I don't know if the family friend even spoke to the other solicitor about this, they may have offered a discount on their behalf, but I feel they should act honourable for what they've done.

I'd never EVER undertake an act that I intend to bill someone without telling them it's billable in my own profession. I also should add that this solicitor had me review some other documents for his own investments, in my field of expertise, which I did, for a family friend. I feel like sending him a bill for that now, but I'm too dignified to do so, I wouldn't pull such a move as reneging on the agreed costs or slipping someone a bill for an hour for a phone call.

Can they come back now and demand more fees when I never signed a TOE? I only went off of the quote I was given and instructed them on that basis. Again, it's not dispursements, it's fees, the agreed fees were confirmed in writing. I've approached the family friend asking that he honour the agreement as quoted for, I've received no reply.

I feel like I'm being gouged here.

Thanks so much for reading.
 
A set fee, if that's what you mean, is a set fee and is not open to negotiation, upwards or downwards. Once agreed by the parties concerned that's it. If the work had been substantially less than what was envisaged at the start of the engagement, would you legal eagle / predator have offered you a reduction come invoice time? I doubt it very much.

The failure to issue a TOE letter at the start of the process is the solicitor's problem and oversight, not yours. and you cannot be bound by a set of T&Cs issued after the event.

Some cheek. Tell them to sue you or you refer the case to the Law Society. IANAL.
 
mathepac said:
A set fee, if that's what you mean, is a set fee and is not open to negotiation, upwards or downwards. Once agreed by the parties concerned that's it. If the work had been substantially less than what was envisaged at the start of the engagement, would you legal eagle / predator have offered you a reduction come invoice time? I doubt it very much.

The failure to issue a TOE letter at the start of the process is the solicitor's problem and oversight, not yours. and you cannot be bound by a set of T&Cs issued after the event.

Some cheek. Tell them to sue you or you refer the case to the Law Society. IANAL.
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Hi, thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. No indeed, a reduction isn’t something I would have even thought of, given your example, but my mind doesn’t work that way.

I thought so, the claim of ‘anything but standard’ was daft, it’s totally arbitrary. Is that ‘a lot’ or ‘a little’?

I’m concerned that they start to delay the conveyancing now on the back of that though. I wouldn’t threaten the law society, given it’s a family friend, I’d rather just point out the cheek at this stage to turn around and ask for money.

Especially when our first meeting was largely me looking over their personal investments. But, again, I’m not so cheap or cheeky as to try plop a bill onto anyone’s lap without saying anything. I always find it’s better to say ‘you’d need to engage someone or arrange a time in the office to look at this any more detail’. Or if it’s direct family, I tell them I’m simply too busy outright.. save the hassle and grief when someone is asking for a lot of work that’s largely expected to be free.

Can they delay the closing at this stage?
 
Under The Solicitors Amendment act 1994 the solicitor should have sent you what is called a section 68 letter outlining their fees at the start. You can complain to the Legal Services Regulatory Authority over their failure to do so. The can be censured for failing to send the letter.

I suggest that you tell the solicitor that unless they adhere to the agreed terms you will make a complaint, and while you are at it you will also complain about their slow handling of your affairs.
 
cremeegg said:
Under The Solicitors Amendment act 1994 the solicitor should have sent you what is called a section 68 letter outlining their fees at the start. You can complain to the Legal Services Regulatory Authority over their failure to do so. The can be censured for failing to send the letter.

I suggest that you tell the solicitor that unless they adhere to the agreed terms you will make a complaint, and while you are at it you will also complain about their slow handling of your affairs.
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The old “Section 68” letter detailing fees etc is now called a “Section 150” letter under updating legislation.
 
Hello and thanks for the replies. Ok, I never got the Sec.68/150 . I got a quote and signed it, that was it. No TOE, nowt. I reckon now that the boss gave me the quote, then passed it on to this person, who put the work in. Probably gave a rate on their behalf, which they shouldn't do.

They're just chancing their arm now asking for more money, which is bad form, given that it was an agreed fee from a family friend, but a fish has to swim, as is said. I'm not that surprised. I deal with solicitors with my work, the refusal to take calls, call back and reply is a commonality that I see. Not saying that's everyone, of course, but it's a definite trend. 'You can wait' etc.

So guys, the Section 150 letter, that's a requirement then, is that correct? If I didn't get TOE and a Section 150 at the start, are they legally able to come back and claim this or to potentially come back for fees unpaid? I don't want to wade into a fight that could delay my house purchase, at best.
 
Have you tried asking the first solicitor (the family friend) their opinion on this new revised quote/bill??
If it was me that would be my first port of call, after all it is with them that you agreed the price for the work to be done and the fact that they handed the work over to an underling is immaterial to the original quote that you both agreed and signed
 
Cervelo said:
Have you tried asking the first solicitor (the family friend) their opinion on this new revised quote/bill??
If it was me that would be my first port of call, after all it is with them that you agreed the price for the work to be done and the fact that they handed the work over to an underling is immaterial to the original quote that you both agreed and signed
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I have yes, they haven't responded.
 
Ok. A few things.

First off, if the firm gave a definitive quote, which it appears they did, they’re bound by it under contract.

However, if the quote was conditional ie dependent on the transaction being short and straightforward, this may allow them some wiggle room. The wording of the quote you got is important in this regard.

I’m not an expert in this area but the quote, if in writing (as it’s legally required to be, and indeed appears to be from the original post) would likely satisfy Section 150 Notice requirements. See:

https://www.lsra.ie/for-law-professionals/your-legal-costs-duties/

Now here’s the thing. You just want the sale completed asap. And you don’t want anything to delay it. If you have a Solicitor who is hostile acting for you, the realpolitik is that they may not be well disposed towards efficiency on your transaction.

It may just be worthwhile to go along with the transaction and the additional cost and after it’s all completed, lodge your compliant to the LSRA.
 
Johnno75 said:
if the quote was conditional ie dependent on the transaction being short and straightforward, this may allow them some wiggle room. The wording of the quote you got is important in this regard.
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It was very brief, quote for services; listing disbursements, etc, price. No T&Cs.

Johnno75 said:
Now here’s the thing. You just want the sale completed asap. And you don’t want anything to delay it. If you have a Solicitor who is hostile acting for you, the realpolitik is that they may not be well disposed towards efficiency on your transaction.
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This is the thing, I've tried fobbing them off. When it first came up I said; 'yeah, sure, we can discuss that no problem, but let's just get all finished first and then we'll talk about it later.'

Johnno75 said:
It may just be worthwhile to go along with the transaction and the additional cost and after it’s all completed, lodge your compliant to the LSRA.
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I didn't want to go down this road at all, I'm also part of a professional body and to be reported would be serious.
 
vincentgav said:
I didn't want to go down this road at all, I'm also part of a professional body and to be reported would be serious.
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There is a plenty of scope for negotiating between talking about making a complaint and actually making one.
 
Update:

I called the solicitor, he doubled down on the lost his temper and said he was going no further. He put the phone down on me.

So now we're at the whim of his temper.. and now here I am... unlucky for me..
 
Billo said:
Is that the conveyancing solicitor ?
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Yeah, basically saying that they're not doing anything more on this that they're not acting any further on the case, put the phone down on me.

Bloody embarrassing, lost the rag over the fees and refused to act, so I now need to find another solicitor to close and we're due to close in 3 weeks.

A hair away from reporting them to the LSRA.
 
Was there any particular issue with the transaction? Perhaps a time consuming title or planning problem that had to be resolved to allow the transaction proceed?
 
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