Solicitor’s bill

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Pieface

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Hi,
Is it common practice for a solicitor who charges by the hour to not issue an itemised bill detailing the hours spent?
I was charged €10000 and the solicitor was offended that I asked for an itemised bill.

Thanks.
 
Solicitors love to take offence, it often works in putting people off.

Your solicitor should have issued you a fee letter at the outset. If he or she didn't that can be the subject of a complaint.

Of course you still have to pay for the work they did, but it very much increases the onus on them to explain the basis of their charges.

Depending on the nature of the relationship you have with your solicitor, and they type of person they are I suggest that you either write complaining that the charges were not clearly outlined at the beginning, as is required, or alternatively make a counter offer of say €3,000. I suspect the latter is the way to go, the round sum €10,000 is very suggestive of a chancer.
 
The letter that’s being referred to can just state the hourly rate.

If that says €1,000 an hour and the bill is €10,000, a timesheet showing 10 hours won’t be much help.
 
From the website of the Legal Services Regulatory Authority

Section 150 requires legal practitioners to provide their clients with a notice written in clear language.

It must set out what legal costs will be incurred in relation to the matter.

The costs notice must be issued after a legal practitioner has received instructions, but before he or she has started providing the advice or legal service.

Where it is not ‘reasonably practicable’ for a legal practitioner to disclose legal costs after initial instructions from a client, the practitioner must set out the basis on which the legal costs are to be calculated e.g. hourly rates.

As soon as it become practicable to do so, the legal practitioner shall provide the client a notice setting out what legal costs will be incurred.

 
A letter was issued at the beginning €300 per hour. The case dragged on due to the other’s party non responsiveness, which leads me to my next question.
If the other party is non responsive and there is no action from my solicitor except to wait, do they charge for “waiting time”?
 
I will be going to a different solicitor. But just wanted to check, they should provide an itemised bill i.e xx hour spent on doing xx?
 
Pieface said:
I will be going to a different solicitor. But just wanted to check, they should provide an itemised bill i.e xx hour spent on doing xx?
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No. Only if asked, which is usually where things have gotten contentious. So they issued their Section 150 letter. If the other side are non-responsive, surely you wanted your side to chase them? What was the outcome of the case?

If I’d spent 33 hours on someone’s case and they were now giving me grief and offering me, let’s say, 30% of what’s owed, I wouldn’t be too happy.
 
cremeegg said:
From the website of the Legal Services Regulatory Authority

Section 150 requires legal practitioners to provide their clients with a notice written in clear language.

It must set out what legal costs will be incurred in relation to the matter.

The costs notice must be issued after a legal practitioner has received instructions, but before he or she has started providing the advice or legal service.

Where it is not ‘reasonably practicable’ for a legal practitioner to disclose legal costs after initial instructions from a client, the practitioner must set out the basis on which the legal costs are to be calculated e.g. hourly rates.

As soon as it become practicable to do so, the legal practitioner shall provide the client a notice setting out what legal costs will be incurred.

Click to expand...
Admit it…you had no idea that a solicitor could simply quote the hourly rate in said letter.

;)
 
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Pieface said:
I will be going to a different solicitor. But just wanted to check, they should provide an itemised bill i.e xx hour spent on doing xx?
Click to expand...

Legal Services Regulation Act 2015, Section 152

The electronic Irish Statute Book (eISB) comprises the Acts of the Oireachtas (Parliament), Statutory Instruments, Legislation Directory, Constitution and a limited number of pre-1922 Acts.
www.irishstatutebook.ie
Hope that link works. In short, yes they should.
 
A bill for exactly 10k is almost certainly a "makey up bill" and they are chancing their arm to see what they can get away with.
 
Gordon Gekko said:
Admit it…you had no idea that a solicitor could simply quote the hourly rate in said letter.

;)
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You are right I had no such idea. Still don't.

Here is the wording of the relevant legislation.

Legal Services Regulation Act 2015, Section 150

The electronic Irish Statute Book (eISB) comprises the Acts of the Oireachtas (Parliament), Statutory Instruments, Legislation Directory, Constitution and a limited number of pre-1922 Acts.
www.irishstatutebook.ie

On receiving instructions from a client, a legal practitioner shall provide the client with a notice which shall—
(a) disclose the legal costs that will be incurred in relation to the matter concerned, or
(b) if it is not reasonably practicable for the notice to disclose the legal costs at that time, set out the basis on which the legal costs are to be calculated.
(3) Where subsection (2)(b) applies, the legal practitioner concerned shall, as soon as may be after it becomes practicable to do so, provide to the client a notice containing the information specified in subsection (2)(a).

I understand that to mean that the solicitor must disclose the legal costs that will be incurred, unless it is not reasonably practicable to do so, and in which case the solicitor must disclose the legal costs that will be incurred as soon as maybe.
 
thedaddyman said:
A bill for exactly 10k is almost certainly a "makey up bill" and they are chancing their arm to see what they can get away with.
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Certainly that is one possibility. More likely, in my experience, the solicitor has finished up a troublesome file and is under pressure to handle other things, and has picked a round sum figure that the solicitor can comfortably stand over, just to be able to close the file.

The day's work of itemising maybe two years of work costs money and yes, the client pays for this too.


When I offer a short-form bill in this manner, as I sometimes do, I make it clear that I am quite sure that this represents a discounted fee, but that if the client is happy to pay it I am happy to take it. The alternative (always offered) is a fully itemised bill with the warning that it will almost certainly be for a higher figure.
 
I’m still at a loss regarding how/why people comment so definitively on things they know very little about.
 
Sarenco said:
You really have no basis for that comment.

The OP hasn’t given us any meaningful information on his case or what services were provided by his solicitor.
Click to expand...

Gordon Gekko said:
How can people post such things with absolute conviction when it’s patently ridiculous.
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My experience, is that when any supplier gives a bill for a nice round amount like 10k, with no back up or basis as to what lies behind it, then they have largely pulled a figure out of the air. This would especially be the case for solicitors where they bill not just for the man hours but for everything from photocopying to sending a letter and everything in between. There may be some basis for the €10k in their head and they may, as another poster has said, just thrown a figure out to try and make an issue go away.

Remember, the solicitor is legally obliged to provide the following
  • A summary of the legal services you received
  • An itemised statement of the charges that were incurred and the nature of these charges
  • The amount of VAT charged and the solicitor’s VAT number
  • The amount of time spent on a matter (if costs are calculated based on time – i.e. the number of hours worked by a solicitor and the rate per hour)
  • The financial outcome of the case, i.e. any damages or other money recovered or payable to the client
  • The amount of any costs that have been paid or are payable to your solicitor by another party – for example costs that were recovered from an insurer.
If they've not provided those details, they made the amount up for whatever reason suits themselves. Hence I 100% stand over my statement. It's a made up figure
 
thedaddyman said:
My experience, is that when any supplier gives a bill for a nice round amount like 10k, with no back up or basis as to what lies behind it, then they have largely pulled a figure out of the air…It's a made up figure
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Grand.

Who needs facts when you can form a definitive view based on your “experience” (aka prejudice)?

Maybe the solicitor provided all the required information. I don’t know - either do you.
 
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