Social Welfare too high - discouraging people from taking up jobs?

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cork said:
Employers can have a funny atitude towards people taking entry level jobs.
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I would like to think this is not the case..and the opposite would happen..that the employer would be impressed with someone going down a few notches if nothing else was available. The person could also upskill on their own time during this period too..
 
But is job snobbery common?

Would people prefer to say that they are bewteen jobs than taking an entry level job?
 
Just to focus again on the subject of 'Lazy' people who are long - term unemployed. I think that needs to be defined. I can certainly say from my spells out of work it can get very depressing, and you can almost end up thinking you are unemployable after so many knocks.

It's a great buzz for a while jobseeking after a job ends, but this soon wears off - and let's face it, some employers positively take the pee. What I refer to is 'interviews' for 'jobs' that are already gone. I could never figure out the motive behind this, but can only guess that in some industries it's beneficial to pretend to seek Irish staff and then apply for a work permit for someone from abroad.

I've gotten loads of contradictory 'reasons' for being refused a job in the above scenario. I went for one job where I was told that I mightn't be qualified, then I was told that it wouldn't suit me as I'm too intelligent and would get bored! Loony stuff! I think some sort of quality control needs to come into the system, and especially in FAS advertised jobs.

It is the responsibility of an employer not to waste peoples' time imho (we won't even start on Recruitment agencies!) This has the effect of eroding confidence on the part of the prospective employee when it happens again and again, and yes, it leads to long - term unemployment. Most people in the latter category have given up. I wouldn't necessarily call it "Laziness".
 
I have a Polish friend who has been on JSA for the last 13 months. Lost his job last Feb and decided to take a few months off on welfare. From memory he got some of his tax back as well. Never bothered his barney even looking for a job until January 2011. He had a car loan and insurance for it, and they have been paying this for him. His rent was subsidized by welfare in a semi-dodgey private arrangement with his landlord. He basically didn't do a tap and thought it was amazing that Ireland was being so generous to him. As it happened, taking all into account he was better off by about 25 euros a month!

Apparently in Poland he would get six months of very little welfare and that's it. He also would be required to show ongoing letters from various employers to state he had applied for jobs before receiving any benefit.

I know for a fact he has a fair few bob saved up. He was recently means-tested and passed that. How I do not know. Myself and other friends have encouraged him to get a job, do a training course or at least volunteer for something, but he has no real interest in doing anything. He does a few small nixers (he's a computer buff) and gets an add'l 100 -200 a month. He has now applied for a medical card today. It makes me sick to the teeth to be honest. His (and my) mutual Polish friends are disgusted and embarassed to the point of hardly speaking to him. They rightly feel he is abusing the system. One of them has told him that he should go back to Poland and stop sponging off the Irish state. Another told him that his taxes are paying for him to sit on his ass, I have said the same thing to him. I have also told him that were I an employer, I would have serious reservations about employing anyone who did nothing at all for more than a year. None of this cuts any ice with him. I make no issue of his being Polish - but no one should be able to get away with this.
 
'Interviews' for 'jobs' that are already gone. I haerd of a case over the weekend on this. Can't understand the reasoning behid it.

The one thing find strange is the lack of training courses as an alternative to the dole.

People are waiting ages for any type of of course.
 
WicklowMan said:
Just to focus again on the subject of 'Lazy' people who are long - term unemployed. I think that needs to be defined. I can certainly say from my spells out of work it can get very depressing, and you can almost end up thinking you are unemployable after so many knocks.

It's a great buzz for a while jobseeking after a job ends, but this soon wears off - and let's face it, some employers positively take the pee. What I refer to is 'interviews' for 'jobs' that are already gone. I could never figure out the motive behind this, but can only guess that in some industries it's beneficial to pretend to seek Irish staff and then apply for a work permit for someone from abroad.

I've gotten loads of contradictory 'reasons' for being refused a job in the above scenario. I went for one job where I was told that I mightn't be qualified, then I was told that it wouldn't suit me as I'm too intelligent and would get bored! Loony stuff! I think some sort of quality control needs to come into the system, and especially in FAS advertised jobs.

It is the responsibility of an employer not to waste peoples' time imho (we won't even start on Recruitment agencies!) This has the effect of eroding confidence on the part of the prospective employee when it happens again and again, and yes, it leads to long - term unemployment. Most people in the latter category have given up. I wouldn't necessarily call it "Laziness".
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I agree with all of that. Everybody deserved to be treated with respect. Calling someone for an interview for a job that's gone shows no respect for that person.
 
My sister in law went for an interview last week as a home carer with an agency at a rate of approx €11.50 per hour. She has been on UB for a year after being made redundant from her job of 18 years. She has just moved onto JA from the JB and is starting to get desperate.

She would love to take the home care job but wouldn't be guaranteed the full hours. So she may only get eight hours a week over four mornings from the agency but the Social welfare count that as four days work and would dock her benefit accordingly. So she would be at a huge disadvantage by taking up the position even though she would love the job and be really good at it.

It's those kind of anomalies which are so difficult to rectify in as large a system as social welfare.
 
But with a lack of training courses available to the unemployed - is the government only adding to a welfare culture?
 
umop3p!sdn said:
I'm sick of paying for other people's benefits.
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I'm sick of paying for the roads that you drive on.

umop3p!sdn said:
I also hate the idea of TDs getting multiple pensions, perks and unvouched expenses (ie theft).
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Nonsense. Unvouched expenses are not theft. Many private companies agree fixed unvouched rates for staff who are on the road, such a fixed lunch amount, or a fixed overnight rate. It is up to the individuals themselves to get value for money within these rates, and no-one has to spend time poring over receipts to check whether the glass of wine is included or excluded. Unvouched expenses are a sensible solution. I was away on a day trip to the UK recently, leaving the house at 5am and returning after 9pm. My unvouched expense allowance was the princely some of €18.38, as my hosts provided sandwiches at lunchtime. So I have to get breakfast and dinner out of that some - I'll be lucky if I break even.

Here's an interesting alternative (i.e. based on the facts, rather than based on a letter to the Indo) view.

http://www.progressive-economy.ie/2011/03/life-of-luxury-on-dole.html
 
shnaek said:
so where's the extra money going? :)
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The motortax money goes into a local government fund - it is not ring fenced for roads.


Social Welfare too high - discouraging people from taking up jobs?

But when jobs and training places are hard to come by - people have little few choices.

It is funny how schools/colleges are under-utilised over the Summer months.
 
Complainer said:
I'm sick of paying for the roads that you drive on.
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I'm confused by this. Do you not use the road system at all? Investment and taxes to pay for roads benefit all people either directly or indirectly. Benefits paid from taxes to certain individuals only benefit the receivors.
 
cork said:
But with a lack of training courses available to the unemployed - is the government only adding to a welfare culture?
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That's a very interesting question. I pulled out all the stops to get together an impressive portfolio for a course that was advertised to begin in February but guess what? - it got shelved.

The reason? - no one knew what the hell was going on in the country, so the funding was pulled. Paralysis / fear is the worst ... mixed with procrastination it's all but destroyed the country. Hopefully a new Government will change that.
 
Firefly said:
Benefits paid from taxes to certain individuals only benefit the receivors.
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That's not true. Spending from benefits has knock-on economic effects. Spending by people on benefits has benefits for their community. It keeps people off the streets. It stops people from begging. It keeps their kids in school. It keeps people out of hospitals.

It has as much benefit to society at large as a high-profile toll road.
 
Complainer said:
That's not true. Spending from benefits has knock-on economic effects. Spending by people on benefits has benefits for their community. It keeps people off the streets. It stops people from begging. It keeps their kids in school. It keeps people out of hospitals.
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...it keeps people from going back into the work force..
 
Complainer said:
Well I guess if a letter writer to the Irish Indo says so, then it must be true. No-one could argue with indisputable evidence.
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Starting with the definition...Poverty trap Definition



Situation created by tax laws and income related social security benefits that prevents people from climbing out of welfare dependency. If these people strive and earn more, they move into higher tax brackets and end up having even less disposable income than before. After trying several times, they generally give up and may accept the situation as their fate.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/poverty+trap

(Sociology) the situation of being unable to escape poverty because of being dependent on state benefits, which are reduced by the same amount as any extra income gained


From the first page result in Google for Poverty Trap Ireland

http://www.irishcatholic.ie/site/content/lone-parents-caught-poverty-trap

'Often lone parents are living in private, rented accommodation using a rent supplement.

''If they go out to work they can lose that rent supplement, but they are not earning enough to pay the rent and childcare on their own. They are caught in a poverty trap that works against people who are trying to move on and it is crippling lone parents,'' he said.


[broken link removed]

The Children’s Rights Alliance (CRA)
Mr Lenihan’s decision to bring families on the minimum wage into the tax net...will create a "poverty trap for poor working families" who are now faced with the reality that "it makes more financial sense for parents to claim the dole than go to work", the CRA said an increase in child poverty is inevitable.

Read more: [broken link removed]

[broken link removed]

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/a...verty-trap-easier-said-than-done-2573520.html

SOCIAL welfare rates were controversially cut in the last two Budgets -- but they are still so generous that many low to middle-income families would be better off on welfare.
 
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