Small Ltd Company - Accountant Costs?

T

TTI

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Hi,

I'm looking for an estimate of typical accountant fees for a small Ltd company that will only have less than two dozen transactions per year. No employees planned for first year. Any ideas of a ballpark figure?
 
I would suggest €700 plus vat - this would cover statutory account, abridged accounts and corporation tax/CRO returns.

It would exclude vat and paye which, if the accountant was doing this, would be extra.

I'm sure some people will think that this is too dear and some people too cheap - ball park figure as far as I'm concerned.
 
That is around the ballpark I'm also thinking, thanks. Any other perspectives?
 
Preparation of annual accounts,
Preparation and submission of CT1,
Preparation of Form 11, for one or two directors.
Preparation and submission of B1 together with abridged accounts to CRO.
Preparation and submission of Form 46G
Misc CSO returns.

€700 + VAT is a very reasonable quote for this work.
 
How do calls about questions typically work, i.e. a query about a taxable expense.

Would that typically be a chargeable call or would that be included in the 700 euro?
 
If you keep it as simple as you have outlined you should pay no more than a couple of hundred plus VAT, I have a Ltd Co in that space, similar transactions and pay that, I keep everything in order, nice and tidy, it limits time input on the part of your Accountant but I do not use him for anything else so no queries etc, see how you get on but open to p.m. me if you want to and I'll pass on his details, I actually never met him he was referred by another Accountant, excellent guy to work with.

You can of course do this yourself as well, does not need to be an Accountant.
 
Palerider said:
If you keep it as simple as you have outlined you should pay no more than a couple of hundred plus VAT, I have a Ltd Co in that space, similar transactions and pay that, I keep everything in order, nice and tidy, it limits time input on the part of your Accountant but I do not use him for anything else so no queries etc, see how you get on but open to p.m. me if you want to and I'll pass on his details, I actually never met him he was referred by another Accountant, excellent guy to work with.

You can of course do this yourself as well, does not need to be an Accountant.
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Hi, thanks for sharing. I have no problem keeping all transactions, etc. myself and giving them in a digital format. Do you know how much you are paying? Where is your Accountant based?
 
Palerider said:
If you keep it as simple as you have outlined you should pay no more than a couple of hundred plus VAT, I have a Ltd Co in that space, similar transactions and pay that, I keep everything in order, nice and tidy, it limits time input on the part of your Accountant but I do not use him for anything else so no queries etc, see how you get on but open to p.m. me if you want to and I'll pass on his details, I actually never met him he was referred by another Accountant, excellent guy to work with.

You can of course do this yourself as well, does not need to be an Accountant.
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You never met your accountant, ever?

How is he supposed to know who you are? He is obliged to verify your identity by retaining a copy of a valid photo ID and proof of address under the Money Laundering Act.
 
Of course he verified my i.d. but yes I never met him in person, I was introduced to him by referral from another Accountant.
 
Palerider said:
Of course he verified my i.d. but yes I never met him in person, I was introduced to him by referral from another Accountant.
Click to expand...

Interesting. So are you getting:
a set of full statutory accounts,
abridged accounts filed to CRO,
a corporation tax return,
a personal income tax return,

ALL for 200+VAT??

If so I'd be very interested to know who this accountant is please!
 
No Corporation tax was payable in year one, I do my personal taxes myself, he completed a simple set of accounts for me with the abridged set sent to me and since forwarded by me to the CRO, he was terrific.

That Ltd Company is a small affair just like the O.P's, it is not worth my while paying any more than a nominal amount annually, I could do the accounts myself but that would take time better spent on other pursuits, it took a number of weeks to get done but I ain't paying top money and could be patient.

I've had bigger Accountancy bills in the good times with another company I was a Director of and I negotiate very hard, I have never been satisfied paying that bill each year. I admit to not seeing the value in accountants bills running to €1000's for a basic set of accounts to be prepared when at that point I also used a paid book-keeper that ran off everything required up to trial balance. This referral was made by the previous Accountant I used when I said I could not afford their charges for this still new baby company.

Simple message - small limited company directors who have a vanilla requirement need to have a vanilla solution, a hard neck, negotiate hard and shop around.
 
Palerider said:
No Corporation tax was payable in year one, I do my personal taxes myself, he completed a simple set of accounts for me with the abridged set sent to me and since forwarded by me to the CRO, he was terrific.

That Ltd Company is a small affair just like the O.P's, it is not worth my while paying any more than a nominal amount annually, I could do the accounts myself but that would take time better spent on other pursuits, it took a number of weeks to get done but I ain't paying top money and could be patient.

I've had bigger Accountancy bills in the good times with another company I was a Director of and I negotiate very hard, I have never been satisfied paying that bill each year. I admit to not seeing the value in accountants bills running to €1000's for a basic set of accounts to be prepared when at that point I also used a paid book-keeper that ran off everything required up to trial balance. This referral was made by the previous Accountant I used when I said I could not afford their charges for this still new baby company.

Simple message - small limited company directors who have a vanilla requirement need to have a vanilla solution, a hard neck, negotiate hard and shop around.
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I don't understand the reference to no corporation tax being payable; a return still has to be filed for the accounting period?

Anyway I digress, the point is you are proposing a solution that isn't most people's cup of tea, and isn't what the OP asked for as far as I can see. Just because you are experienced enough in business and happy to complete your own tax return without recourse to professional advice doesn't mean the OP is!

Even at the no frills level you're talking about, your accountant is either working for peanuts, or cutting corners. If it was me I'd be concerned either way, as both possibilities involve unnecessary risk for you/your company.
 
How do you verify someone's identity if you have never met them!

I have to say I've never met an accountant (or anyone else TBH) who will recommend a competitor to a client because they are cheaper:

Client - "your fees are too expensive, can you reduce them?"
Accountant - "no sorry I can't reduce my fees, but if you go to Mr.Y down the road, he can do the exact same work for less than me"
 
[FONT=&quot]The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot.

It can't be done.

If you deal with the lowest bidder, it's well to add something for the risk you run.

And if you do that, you will have enough money to pay for something better.[/FONT]
 
I think Palerider just doesn't rate the job that accountants do, and that's an opinion that he/she is totally entitled to.

However, even starting from that perspective Palerider, you should be able to appreciate that the idea of a false economy applies at least as much to professional services as it does to any other product/service...
 
TTI said:
Hi,

I'm looking for an estimate of typical accountant fees for a small Ltd company that will only have less than two dozen transactions per year. No employees planned for first year. Any ideas of a ballpark figure?
Click to expand...

This is what the O.P asked for, I provided my response which is exactly what he asked about, there is no reference to personal tax returns in the post.

There was no Corporation tax payable, this is different to submission of a Corporation tax return, a nil return was submitted

It seems some people are bordering on incredulous about this, why ?, I am satisfied as is my service provider and paid promptly including VAT, all above board, I reckon there was at most two hours straight work in my returns, who here gets €100 an hour ?

I never could get a handle on fees requested from Accountants, too much ambiguity and a lot of waffle, I got a significant deduction each year over eight years because frankly those fees could not be justified, that was a business of which I was a Director for 8 years, the first 4 with one firm and the second four with another when they would not negotiate their fee. The savings were into the €1000's in professional fees, it is step ladder coming down from years one through year eight.

I require the most basic of services done right to keep me compliant. I got that, I think the O.P would do well to seek out referrals to similar cost consious qualified people who can assist him in his start up, there are many qualified and part qualified Accountants out there many of them keen for work, as the services required become more complex then re-visit what is needed and tender for that as well at that point.
 
Any accountant should charge a fee note based on the actual hours worked for the client, based on the charge out rates per hour for whatever the accountancy/audit staff member worked on. Outlay eg. CRO filing fees, newspaper ads, is also charged. The firm where I trained as an accountant didn't separately charge clients for postage or stationery.

An accountant's fee note reflects the hours worked using his/her knowledge and expertise based on experience/qualifications. It always pays to shop around for the best value in any professional services. Given the thousands of accountants around it is just a fact of business that fees differ from one to the other.
 
Hi Joe, I sense a slight eye brow rise there. How many hours should be involved in preparing and delivering such accounts?
 
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