Sinn Féin's tax proposals?

[Deiseblue]

Nobody can accuse Sinn Fein of lacking political nous.
Their understanding of the political zeitgeist is second to none , their ability to encourage people to vote for them who never voted or contemplated voting due to the hard work done by party members on the ground is the envy of other parties.
Younger voters don't really care or perhaps are unaware about their violent roots and simply see them as simply a political party that they would like to represent them and older voters unfortunately are either ambivalent about their past or perhaps believe they've changed.
Their communication skills are polished and they come across extremely well in the media , there's little doubt that a lot of money has been spent on polishing such skills.
They have funds , perhaps of somewhat doubtful provenance , that no other party can match.
In Waterford David Cullinane was elected with a surplus of 10,000 votes and speculation is rife that SF could possibly take 3 of the 4 seats at the next election.
FF who are no slouchs themselves when it comes to sensing which way the political winds are blowing have opened the door to the idea of a possible coalition with SF.
As for their populist economic policies nobody ever has lost votes on a policy of taxing the rich to benefit everybody else and once in power the great readjustment can be made blaming of course the mess that they've inherited .
I am enthused about their promise to restore the tax credit for Trade Union membership subscriptions- not so much for the relatively small benefit but as an indication that we could at last see a party in power who would actively support pro Union recognition legislation.

 

[Firefly]

You can call it what you like but the €62.8 billion was borrowed from future tax payers ..... It is worth noting that we've got most of that money back.

I've often thought about this. What did the government do with the funds they received back? I would have expected to see the national debt being reduced...

 

[Purple]

I've often thought about this. What did the government do with the funds they received back? I would have expected to see the national debt being reduced...

Threw it into the bottomless pit that is current expenditure.

 

[Marsupial]

I am enthused about their promise to restore the tax credit for Trade Union membership subscriptions- not so much for the relatively small benefit but as an indication that we could at last see a party in power who would actively support pro Union recognition legislation.

Yep, supporting the Unions is likely to be a key part of SF's anti-business, anti-FDI agenda! Happily they'll be creating tens of thousands of jobs in the social housing construction sector, so losing all of those well-paid private sector jobs won't really matter.

 

[Firefly]

Threw it into the bottomless pit that is current expenditure.

That would surely mask the level of current expenditure too..

 

[Purple]

That would surely mask the level of current expenditure too..

Well it does mask the level of real borrowing.

 

[Deiseblue]

Yep, supporting the Unions is likely to be a key part of SF's anti-business, anti-FDI agenda! Happily they'll be creating tens of thousands of jobs in the social housing construction sector, so losing all of those well-paid private sector jobs won't really matter.

We are an outlier in Europe when it comes to mandatory Trade Union recognition by employers and such recognition hasn't had a delitoriorious effect on those countries.
Allied to that I believe that we have extremely constrained and engaged Trade Unions in Ireland .

 

[Marsupial]

We are an outlier in Europe when it comes to mandatory Trade Union recognition by employers and such recognition hasn't had a delitoriorious effect on those countries.

Yes it has. That's partly why we do so well with FDI. But SF's attitude is: who needs FDI just as long as the beards are happy!

Amusingly, in an interview in today's Examiner, Mary-Lou states that: "Tackling the "constipated" public and civil service will be one of the biggest challenges for Sinn Féin in government" - which is presumably intended to convince us that she's willing to take on the public service unions! I'm not holding my breath!

 

[Nicklesilver]

My guess is SF will move to the centre once in power, after all MaryLou is private educated south sides, 5 bed house, big pension middle class, designer clothes, ex FF and is every bit as posh as posh Leo.

 

[Deiseblue]

Yes it has. That's partly why we do so well with FDI. But SF's attitude is: who needs FDI just as long as the beards are happy!

Amusingly, in an interview in today's Examiner, Mary-Lou states that: "Tackling the "constipated" public and civil service will be one of the biggest challenges for Sinn Féin in government" - which is presumably intended to convince us that she's willing to take on the public service unions! I'm not holding my breath!

C'mon the biggest single attraction for FDI's in Ireland was the attractive corporation tax rate which is now a thing of the past .
Germany has probably the most Union friendly legislation in Europe and has a huge amount of FDI's.
There is a private members bill submitted in May 2021 by people before profit to grant recognition of Trade Unions by employers , I see the door beginning to open and believe it's only a matter of time before our out of step position is regulated in tandem with our EU partners.
Mary Lou may indeed attempt to change Public Sector practices but she can only do so in tandem with the Unions and as usual she is attempting to be all things to all people !

 

[tomdublin]

My guess is SF will move to the centre once in power, after all MaryLou is private educated south sides, 5 bed house, big pension middle class, designer clothes, ex FF and is every bit as posh as posh Leo.

If SF comes to power one good and two bad outcomes are possible:
1) They morph into a pragmatic and competent Continental-style social democratic party.
2) They become a lazy, incompetent, corrupt and opportunistic mouthpiece for vested interests (basically a new edition of FF).
3) They underperform/overpromise and try to compensate by resorting to nasty, belligerent and exclusionary nationalism, esp. regarding NI but possibly also domestic minorities, migrants or the EU.

3 would be the worst outcome but 2 seems more likely (with 1 also a distinct possibility).

 

[Purple]

I don’t have the energy to reply to this nonsense.
Supporting the Shinners so that they compel employers to engage with Unions even when the majority of employees don’t want them. I suppose the Shinners have a long history of forcing people to do things so why not.

This thread was about SF taxation policy. I took it off topic by pointing out the hypocrisy of a Party claiming to be socialist rejecting real wealth taxes. They say they will redress the balance in society by taxing high earners, earners who still can’t afford a 4 bed semi in most parts of our cities. Populist nonsense, unjust, unfair and unsustainable.

They are charlatans run by murderers and the people who vote for them are idiots or morally bankrupt or both. I’d rather see Paul Murphy running the country. At least he hasn’t killed anyone or covered up child rape or carried the coffins of child killers. At least he’s not pretending to be something he’s not.

 

[PebbleBeach2020]

I don’t have the energy to reply to this nonsense.
Supporting the Shinners so that they compel employers to engage with Unions even when the majority of employees don’t want them. I suppose the Shinners have a long history of forcing people to do things so why not.

This thread was about SF taxation policy. I took it off topic by pointing out the hypocrisy of a Party claiming to be socialist rejecting real wealth taxes. They say they will redress the balance in society by taxing high earners, earners who still can’t afford a 4 bed semi in most parts of our cities. Populist nonsense, unjust, unfair and unsustainable.

They are charlatans run by murderers and the people who vote for them are idiots or morally bankrupt or both. I’d rather see Paul Murphy running the country. At least he hasn’t killed anyone or covered up child rape or carried the coffins of child killers. At least he’s not pretending to be something he’s not.

If you don't mind, I think I'm going to rob some of your post here for when SF knock at my door. I've no time at all for them and it galls me to think of them in charge of ministries such as Justice, Education and Foreign Affairs.

The Gardai must be loathe to think of information being available to a SF minister who can and will leak it back to the Army Council in Belfast. An absolutely shocking scenario for all of us.

 

[Baby boomer]

..... I’d rather see Paul Murphy running the country. At least he hasn’t killed anyone or covered up child rape or carried the coffins of child killers. At least he’s not pretending to be something he’s not.

Careful now! While he may not have killed anybody he subscribes to an extreme left ideology that, whenever and wherever implemented, has resulted in murderous oppression and tyranny. (Death toll at about 100 million and counting.)
PBP and their fellow travellers are NOT democrats and see the parliamentary process as merely a stepping stone to a new socialist socioeconomic and political system. In fact, they engage in endless internal debate about the dangers (for their movement) of parliamentarianism. As distinct from other forms of "struggle."

I'm no Shinner, but I'd take them ahead of PBP any day.

 

[Purple]

Careful now! While he may not have killed anybody he subscribes to an extreme left ideology that, whenever and wherever implemented, has resulted in murderous oppression and tyranny. (Death toll at about 100 million and counting.)
PBP and their fellow travellers are NOT democrats and see the parliamentary process as merely a stepping stone to a new socialist socioeconomic and political system. In fact, they engage in endless internal debate about the dangers (for their movement) of parliamentarianism. As distinct from other forms of "struggle."

I'm no Shinner, but I'd take them ahead of PBP any day.

Oh they'd be a disaster but, unlike the Shinners, they haven't actually killed anyone (yet) and if anyone things that the people who actually run the Shinners are parliamentarian I've a bridge to sell them.

 

[Peanuts20]

I’d rather see Paul Murphy running the country. At least he hasn’t killed anyone or covered up child rape or carried the coffins of child killers. At least he’s not pretending to be something he’s not.

Hang on now, this is the Paul Murphy, the son of a leading business exec from Goatstown, who was sent to posh fee paying schools, including a Leaving Cert grind factory and is now on his 3rd (at least) political party/group?

Regardless of these tax position, I'll vote for Sinn Fein the day they apologise for rattling my windows when Canary wharf went off, and blowing my desk up when Bishopsgate went off or detonating a litter bin bomb 2 streets over from me one night down the west end when I was going to see a play. In addition, I'll consider voting for them when they have united policy positions north and south. But I can't see any of that happening soon.

 

[Purple]

Hang on now, this is the Paul Murphy, the son of a leading business exec from Goatstown, who was sent to posh fee paying schools, including a Leaving Cert grind factory and is now on his 3rd (at least) political party/group?

Yep, that's the one. He's nearly as well to do as Clare Daily and Mary Lou.
Paul's Party is run from this country, unlike Mary Lou's. The people who run his party have never murdered children. I would never vote for him or his party but they aren't run by a terrorist organisation headquartered in a foreign country.

 

[Deiseblue]

Hang on now, this is the Paul Murphy, the son of a leading business exec from Goatstown, who was sent to posh fee paying schools, including a Leaving Cert grind factory and is now on his 3rd (at least) political party/group?

Regardless of these tax position, I'll vote for Sinn Fein the day they apologise for rattling my windows when Canary wharf went off, and blowing my desk up when Bishopsgate went off or detonating a litter bin bomb 2 streets over from me one night down the west end when I was going to see a play. In addition, I'll consider voting for them when they have united policy positions north and south. But I can't see any of that happening soon.

Equally I will never vote for Sinn Fein as I’m aware of the vile background from whence they sprung .
Equally I have never voted for either FF or FG but only because I disagree with their politics , nonetheless in recent years I find myself agreeing with more of their policies mainly because such policies reflect a move to the left driven by the inexorable rise in SF’s popularity.
I certainly never envisaged Leo Varadkar agreeing to set up a high level group to look at collective bargaining and industrial relations and to look at legal and constitutional issues.
I commend Paul Murphy for his private members bill on trade Union recognition and SF for their plan to reintroduce the tax credit for union subs - no reason not to from my point of view.

 

[Purple]

What the Shinners and the rest of the populist left miss is that the wealth inequality in this country is not being driven by earned income. They are, as usual, shooting at the wrong target (pun not intended but now that I see it it seems apt).

 

[Baby boomer]

Hang on now, this is the Paul Murphy, the son of a leading business exec from Goatstown, who was sent to posh fee paying schools, including a Leaving Cert grind factory and is now on his 3rd (at least) political party/group?

No comfort there. Pol Pot was the son of a wealthy Cambodian family who was privately educated in the best French speaking schools and went to university in Paris. Look how he turned out - death toll approximately 2 million, about 25% of the population.