Single parent but starting a family with new partner

[zen]

Hi all

Just wondering if anyone could shine some light here, I think I'm entitled to nothing and it seems a bit unfair.

I have an child from a previous relationship (not married) that didn't work out. Unlike most single parents her mother and I are cooperating very well. I have the single parent tax credits for this child which is fine.

However, I have been in a relationship with my current girlfriend for 3 years now who's a non EU foreign national. She's entitled to nothing, not allowed to work, not allowed to claim SW, I have her on VHI as request by the dept of immegration. I pay for everything and receive no tax credits. We have been living together for 1 1/2 years and we are now having a baby.

Can I claim any tax credits for either her as (co-habiting couples)?
What about further tax credits for the new arrival. For example, I'm claiming single parent tax credits for my first child but I'm not a "single parent" so to speak for the new child and I'm also not married!!

 

[Mel]

Unlike most single parents her mother and I are cooperating very well.

what does this have to do with your question?

I have the single parent tax credits for this child which is fine.

We have been living together for 1 1/2 years and we are now having a baby.

I'm not sure if it is fine; you have been co-habiting for 1 1/2 years; ordinarily you are not allowed to claim the one-parent family tax credit in this instance. Your partner's status may or may not change this, but you should investigate.

Can I claim any tax credits for either her as (co-habiting couples)?
What about further tax credits for the new arrival. For example, I'm claiming single parent tax credits for my first child but I'm not a "single parent" so to speak for the new child and I'm also not married!!

There are no tax credits for non-married couples.
I assume you can claim child benefit for the new baby.

 

[niceoneted]

Why don't you just marry her and you will be able to benefit from tax credits and she will be able to work here.

 

[zen]

Mel, thanks for the reply but you dont seem to be able to offer any real assistance.

What is the definition of the single parent tax credit???

As you rightly said, I'm co-habiting....but.... not with the mother of the child I'm claiming the credit for. You do get that bit right?


As for getting married, I'm not religious. And getting married for tax reasons would be financial suicide and blasphemous. Hypothetically, IF I got married as per niceoneted I'd loose the one parent tax credit, gain the married tax credit. (which are the same'ish)

So where is the incentive? Technically I should be able to claim the one parent tax credit for the child I am the single parent of, and get the married tax credit (if I got married). Although allowed to work, my partner would not be working, she would be a full time mother while I remain the provider.

 

[stephnyc]

What is the definition of the single parent tax credit???

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/it9.html

As you rightly said, I'm co-habiting....but.... not with the mother of the child I'm claiming the credit for. You do get that bit right?

Yes, we get that! You are co-habiting (doesnt matter with who), so do not qualify AFAIK

From revenue.ie:

"You do not qualify for One-Parent Family Tax Credit if:

• You are a person qualifying for the Married Person's Tax Credit or
• You are a person living together with another person as man and wife "

Although allowed to work, my partner would not be working, she would be a full time mother while I remain the provider.

If you can afford this, while being tax compliant, then great!

 

[Greta]

The incentive to marry your girlfriend would be to provide her with a stable immigration status, that will allow her to work and eventually get permanent residence and citizenship. As she is also going to be the mother of your child, if you marry her, she won't face hassle if you die, as otherwise she could face the threat of deportation and your child may end up in another country. Even if she is going to be a full-time mother, it is quite different when it's entirely by choice and not because she is not allowed to work, it would give her options and choice which she doesn't have now, insecurity is a very stressful thing.

I don't see the point of not marrying her just on the point of principle, if you both intend to be together long-term. Of course, if you are not and think you may split up before too long, then marrying - just for short-term tax reasons - would be stupid. It wouldn't be blasphemous though, if it is a civil ceremony and not a religious one

 

[truthseeker]

What is the definition of the single parent tax credit???

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...ne_parent_family_tax_credits_and_reliefs.html

or

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/credits/one-parent-family.html

As for getting married, I'm not religious. And getting married for tax reasons would be financial suicide and blasphemous.

I wasnt aware that getting married had anything to do with religion or blasphemy?!? Plenty of people marry in civil ceremonies that have no connection with any religion.

So where is the incentive? Technically I should be able to claim the one parent tax credit for the child I am the single parent of, and get the married tax credit (if I got married).

According to the links above you cannot be entitled to both the married tax credit and one parent tax credit at the same time.

Nor can you be living with someone else as husband and wife.

1. Must not be entitled to the Married Personal Tax Credit.
2. Must not be living with another person as husband and wife.

So by the looks of above youre not entitled to the one parent family tax credit in your current situation - married or unmarried.

Perhaps youd be best off going to your local citizens information office for advice?

Incidentally another incentive for you to marry is to that you have full legal rights with regards to your child - something that unmarried fathers in Ireland do not have.

 

[zen]

tks guys I appreciate it. This feedback is better. Constructive. I'm blown away by the point on the co-habiting. Single co-habiting people might need to take to the streets for their rights to be recognised!!!
Co-habiting with someone who is not the childs parent AND not earning anything nor is she entitled to anything, one looses this credit!!! This is hardly right. Its like they want you to get married.

Tks Greta on your points. Very valid. Perhaps the registry office might be an option.... Churches are a no no for me.

 

[truthseeker]

Its like they want you to get married.

They DO want you to get married - or more precisely - marraige and the family have a protected status in our constitution.

I see it differently to you - why should you be entitled to one parent tax credit when you are not a one parent family? You have a partner - youre not a single parent. Its a different family - but still a family.

There is no such thing as a single co-habiting person - you are either single or you are not - and if you are co-habiting you are not single.

 

[Mel]

tks guys I appreciate it. This feedback is better. Constructive. I'm blown away by the point on the co-habiting. Single co-habiting people might need to take to the streets for their rights to be recognised!!!
Co-habiting with someone who is not the childs parent AND not earning anything nor is she entitled to anything, one looses this credit!!! This is hardly right. Its like they want you to get married.

Tks Greta on your points. Very valid. Perhaps the registry office might be an option.... Churches are a no no for me.

I advised that you need to investigate your situation - constructive - you may find that you are entitled to the credit considering your partner's status as it's unusual.

 

[Mel]

And getting married for tax reasons would be financial suicide and blasphemous. Hypothetically, IF I got married as per niceoneted I'd loose the one parent tax credit, gain the married tax credit. (which are the same'ish)

So where is the incentive? Technically I should be able to claim the one parent tax credit for the child I am the single parent of, and get the married tax credit (if I got married). Although allowed to work, my partner would not be working, she would be a full time mother while I remain the provider.

How would it be "financial suicide"? You'd gain a credit that you're entitled to, as opposed to one that you now seem to be claiming without entitlement.
Check whether you are entitled to FIS - a previous post indicates that you are supporting a number of people.

 

[zen]

Hi Truth seeker. Can you expand on "protected status"? Is that a status privilage above a normal Irish single citizen? If so, thats discrimation on martial status.

I believe married couples are being taxed more (and more to come) than single people since the new budget. Another reason for not taking this route. I saw an article from KPM showing the net incomve figures of a married couple were taxed more than a single person. This is not constitutional.

The Single Parent Tax credit is nothing to do with single people, its single parents. Co-habiting has absolutely, positively nothing to do with my first child and should not be seen as consideration. Single Parent tax credit should have nothing to do with whom i'm living with! I'm still a single parent to that child. I do not (and my girlfried has the same view) expect her to clean/cloth or take care of my child. Co-habiting is (or at least should be) irrelevant. My first childs mother is still alive and well. My new partner did not adopt my first child.


Tks Mel, I'll check it out directly with the Revenue. Complicated situations like mine do not come under standard tax credits.

Also, get this, the dept of immegration wont grant her full visa which will allow her to stay legitimately as they wont recognise us as a de facto couple. Still trying to prove this 3 years on....
The social welfare wont offer assistance to her as they see us as a couple!!!!
The revenue dont care unless we are married.

So you can see the different government agencies are just choosing what they want to suite themselves. One sees us as a couple, the other doesn't and the third,well I'm still not sure!

I understood Truthseeke you are just the messenger and it specifically says
You do not qualify if:
You are a person living together with another person as man and wife

Well if you are living together as man and wife.... does that not mean married, if so you should be claiming "as man and wife" married tax credits......

 

[Mel]

The Single Parent Tax credit is nothing to do with single people, its single parents. Co-habiting has absolutely, positively nothing to do with my first child and should not be seen as consideration. Single Parent tax credit should have nothing to do with whom i'm living with! I'm still a single parent to that child. I do not (and my girlfried has the same view) expect her to clean/cloth or take care of my child. Co-habiting is (or at least should be) irrelevant. My first childs mother is still alive and well. My new partner did not adopt my first child.

I'm also a single parent zen - you're not making any arguments that haven't been made before, but right now, however you see it, them's the rules.

 

[Nige]

I believe married couples are being taxed more (and more to come) than single people since the new budget. Another reason for not taking this route. I saw an article from KPM showing the net incomve figures of a married couple were taxed more than a single person. This is not constitutional.

There is no case (that I can think of) where two single people are taxed less than a married couple with the same income divided in the same way.

If you get married, you are entitled to the married person's tax credit and, may be entitled to a "homecarer's" credit if one of the spouses is not working where there young children. In addition, the standard rate band of a married person can be increased.

 

[Bronte]

It is quite amazing OP how you've managed to prove what a bureaucratic mess your status is and that of your girlfriend and of your next child to be will be. Yet you don't see the obvious benefit to everybody, not just you, of marriage.

 

[zen]

Folks, despite the "bureaucratic mess" you describe it to be and saracastically call it perfectly romantic, none of you seem to be able to see through the prejudicial smokescreen that we are very much love. We are starting a family together. Ok, maybe its not (by your definition) of "traditional" but times change. This does not stop us from wanting to make the right decicions especially giving the current financial state of afairs we are in.

It cant be a coincidence that every turn we take the government come out on top and joe public ends up loosing. I've already shown that the different agencies pic and choose the circumstances that favours them.

Before anyone else jumps on the predujice band waggan, I pay about 1.5k tax every month and have been working since I was 14. I have never claimed SW myself. I'm not avoiding tax, never had. I contribute to society in more ways than just financially. I'm looking for the right advice so I know what decisions to make.

This society perpetuates marriage which might make somethings "convenient" but it goes against my personal values to do so. I'm not religous in the traditional sense, more of a philanthropist. I dont see why a ring (religous) or (marriage) legal document should have any influence in how we are taxed.

Point taken Mel, "Thems the rule" So now I must make a decision...

Thanks for all your input!

 

[huskerdu]

This society perpetuates marriage which might make somethings "convenient" but it goes against my personal values to do so. I'm not religous in the traditional sense, more of a philanthropist. I dont see why a ring (religous) or (marriage) legal document should have any influence in how we are taxed.

Lots of people agree with you and it is frustrating but that is the law in Ireland at the moment.

You can take a principled stand against the law, and accept that this stand is important enough to you to put up with the cost involved or not.

 

[dereko1969]

Folks, despite the "bureaucratic mess" you describe it to be and saracastically call it perfectly romantic, none of you seem to be able to see through the prejudicial smokescreen that we are very much love. We are starting a family together. Ok, maybe its not (by your definition) of "traditional" but times change. This does not stop us from wanting to make the right decicions especially giving the current financial state of afairs we are in.

It cant be a coincidence that every turn we take the government come out on top and joe public ends up loosing. I've already shown that the different agencies pic and choose the circumstances that favours them.

Before anyone else jumps on the predujice band waggan, I pay about 1.5k tax every month and have been working since I was 14. I have never claimed SW myself. I'm not avoiding tax, never had. I contribute to society in more ways than just financially. I'm looking for the right advice so I know what decisions to make.

This society perpetuates marriage which might make somethings "convenient" but it goes against my personal values to do so. I'm not religous in the traditional sense, more of a philanthropist. I dont see why a ring (religous) or (marriage) legal document should have any influence in how we are taxed.

Point taken Mel, "Thems the rule" So now I must make a decision...

Thanks for all your input!

I don't think anyone is questioning your love for each other or your contribution to society. What they have pointed out is that, according to the law as it stands, you are incorrectly claiming for single parent tax credit to which you are not entitled.

You are still confusing marriage with religion for some reason. There is no such link as has been pointed out to you in numerous posts. Marriage, under the current rules, whether people agree with it or not, would provide more certainty for your partner and yourself.

The law is an ass in this regard but there's not much you can do about it.

 

[zen]

tks huskedu, alas! I was begining to question my sanity.

LOL, I started off wondering if I was entitled to anything since I'm supporting more people and discovered a backhand across the face that I'm to loose further credits!LOL, what a quagmire.

I'll continue to claim my single parent tax credit which is miniscule compared to the amount of tax I (we all) pay as I disagree with the ambiguous definition. I would challange it if I was audited.

I just gotta repeat this and laugh....
"You are a person living together with another person as man and wife"
EVEN THOUGH YOUR NOT MARRIED..... How does one live with someone AS a man and wife if they are not married. You live as husband and wife..... Another ethically enequality on men.
They would have to prove you "live as man and wife" whatever that means. If there is a term or definition to describe this situation (other than marriage) then I would very much like to hear it.

Ok guys I'll consider this closed, it seems no I'm not entitled to anything and I'm technically going to loose my existing credit for the most bizare reasons

for the record,,,,... mariage and religion are almost synomous.... please!...

 

[alaskaonline]

I'll continue to claim my single parent tax credit which is miniscule compared to the amount of tax I (we all) pay as I disagree with the ambiguous definition. I would challange it if I was audited.

Good luck with that! The rules are there for a reason, not to annoy you but more so to ensure people aren't taking advantage of the credits out there (plenty of people out there that do this). Did you call the Revenue and Social Welfare in the meantime? Did you talk to your local Welfare officer who should be the best advise point for you?

Living as "husband and wife" even if not described in the best way (which you will find are a few things on the Revenue & Welfare site but let's not get into that) simply means, sharing a bed and/or a partner relationship with someone else. With your partner being pregnant it's pretty obvious you were living like "husband and wife" and therefore as others posted you are not entitled to the One Parent Family Tax Credit. This has nothing to do with who is the mother of your first child by the way. It would be different if the woman you are living with is not your partner but rents a room in the house. Then you are still entitled to the Credit.
The state recognizes that a single parent might struggle more financially than two people (partner relationship) living together. Of course this is not the case with you because your partner doesn't work but technically she could and then two incomes are present.

Either way, check with your Welfare officer. You might be entitled to FIS, Medical Card, Back-to-School Allowance (if your first born is in school) etc.