siblings differing valuations, help needed

  • Thread starter marlondando
  • Start date
M

marlondando

Guest
Well, were do i start! Our father died last year and we (my brother and me) are now trying to sort out the selling of the house. All other monies are sorted.

Now, I had the house valued 4 weeks ago for 390,000 and the brother frankly doesnt believe that valuation. Now, he went to OZ around 6 months ago as he had no work here and the country is going down the toilet.
We advised him to get his own valuation and are waiting on that to come through.

Now, what if it comes back high e.g. 410,000?? Our valuer stands by his estimate (390,000) and said its a "sale price, its what you will get for it"

We wil not pay him more than its worth and are willing to sell it if he thinks our offer of 195,000 isnt enough. Can he prevent the sale??
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Re: Ok, need advice

Hi Marlon

you may want to change the title of your thread to make it more identifiable to other posters. You are more likely to get better responses that way.

All the best
 
Re: Ok, need advice

Hi Marlon

you may want to change the title of your thread to make it more identifiable to other posters. You are more likely to get better responses that way.

All the best

thanks sprite, not thinking too well at the moment
 
Put it on the Market for whatever your brother thinks it's worth.

Wait... and wait... Until you get an offer (probably well below that figure).

Tell your brother what the offer is and see how quick he changes his mind. If he had to go half way round the world for work then surely even €150,000 would help him out.

Just a thought.
 
we are both executors. Can we put it on the market and if so how do we sort out a value acceptable for both of us? This is what I dont understand.

I am sure its relatively simple but I have no experience of this sort of thing. I would imagine everyone is pretty clueless about this type of affair till their parent dies. Unless you are a lawyer obviously!!
 
Try and forget for the moment that it is an executor sale as this seems to be clouding your thinking and getting you bogged down.

Just think of it as if you were putting your own house on the market - you get advice on a sale price and either then take that advice on board and then choose a price which may well be somewhere in between. Then see what kind of interest you have and offers you get. Just because your brother thinks the house might achieve x amount doesnt mean much at the end of the day - as with any house sale these days the buyers will decide how much it is 'worth' ie how much they are prepared to pay for it.
 
Life is tricky when you are trying to deal with a big financial question and, I presume, trying to maintain good family relationships.

An auctioneer's valuation is no more than an opinion. If you are lucky, it is an informed opinion, but I think that auctioneers have almost as much difficulty as the rest of us in judging what a house might realise in the current market.

You could put the house on the market with a slightly (not wildly) optimistic asking price and see what transpires. If, after making a reasonable effort, the best price offered is €x, then that might be agreed between yourself and your brother that the value is €x. You can then decide, if you wish, that you can buy his interest for €x/2.
 
Can I put the house on the market without his permission? Surely he cant hold onto it for as long as it takes to come up to a price he is happy with?

To be honest the family relationship is ruined anyway and beyond retreival so whatever i have to do for my own kids has to come first. The man has been nothing but a hinderance to tell you the truth. I just want to sort the house out and get on with life.

Also, his valuer, despite being told it is a "sale price" we are looking for, not a price thats going to make it sit on the market for the next year, he seemed to be looking for things to inflate the value. To be frank, it seemed like he had been directed to overvalue.

We wont know for sure untill we get his valuation i suppose. His valuer was also made aware of how much we had it valued for so in theory he wont deviate too much from that.

Thanks for the help folks, its much appreciated
 
I am not aware of any mechanism for resolving a conflict between joint executors (some of our solicitor members might have some experience of that). There is, however, law that is intended to avoid matters being unreasonably delayed: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1965/en/act/pub/0027/sec0062.html#zza27y1965s62. In effect, it means that any beneficiary (you) can apply to the court to bring an action against the executors (you and your brother) if things have not been finalised after a year. Obviously, it could be cumbersome and costly, but if your brother is made aware that the law effectively allows a year for an estate to be dealt with, he might be persuaded that obstructive tactics are a bad idea.

I can't see any reason why you should not test the market (other than it is a lot of work).
 
We wil not pay him more than its worth and are willing to sell it if he thinks our offer of 195,000 isnt enough. Can he prevent the sale??

Will you sell him your share of the house for €195,000?

If so, then you write to him to say that you are willing to either:

a. Buy him out for €195k OR
b. Be bought out for €195k, OR
c. Have the house sold on the open market

the chosen option to be implemented within a set period of no less than X months, and that he should choose which option he prefers.

This will put you in a better position in the event that the thing does end up in litigation - because you will now have at least a half-reasonable chance of making him pay the costs of such litigation. Talk to your solicitor about this.
 
Well, he hasnt got back to me with his valuation yet so I can only assume it hasnt gone as well as he thought it would! Unless he hasnt paid the valuer yet and he hasnt got it!

If he comes back to me with a higher valuation than mine I will quite happily say to him "if you think thats a fair price, you can give half lf that to me". The main snag is that he makes everything so very,very difficult. He doesnt even have a solicitor yet. And he only contacts on his terms, never answers his phone to me or responds to emails. The onyl contact from him was the text to say he didnt believe the valuation.

Now, Dad died in June so, thanks to PadraigB we know he has untill this June to get his act together or else it looks like it will be court. Unfortunately, with him being in OZ i dont know how it would work if he refused to attend?

He will do anything to keep it on the long finger whereas my partner and me are expecting another child in June (he is aware of this and aware of the fact we have a 2 year old and obviously doesnt give a damn)
and really want our lives sorted out by then
 
... Now, Dad died in June so, thanks to PadraigB we know he has untill this June to get his act together or else it looks like it will be court...

I am not a specialist in this area. It just happens that I was aware of that bit of the legislation. But I don't think the court would be in a hurry to hear a case on the first anniversary of death, and I would be concerned about the potential costs.

My thinking was that you might use the expectation in the law as a sabre to rattle, that it might persuade your brother to act more quickly.
 
I am not a specialist in this area. It just happens that I was aware of that bit of the legislation. But I don't think the court would be in a hurry to hear a case on the first anniversary of death, and I would be concerned about the potential costs.

My thinking was that you might use the expectation in the law as a sabre to rattle, that it might persuade your brother to act more quickly.

I know PadraigB, thanks for the advice. I will cetainly be sabre ratlling at the earliest opportunity. As he is so tight he wont spend money to get engage a solicitor it cetainly gives me something to throw at him
 
Time is on your side. House prices are only going in one direction, so the longer he stalls the more you'll save.
 
If he comes back to me with a higher valuation than mine I will quite happily say to him "if you think thats a fair price, you can give half lf that to me".

Why wait? If you are happy with the valuation you have given him, why not simply offer him the choice between buying you out or being bought out by you at that figure?

He will do anything to keep it on the long finger whereas my partner and me are expecting another child in June (he is aware of this and aware of the fact we have a 2 year old and obviously doesnt give a damn) and really want our lives sorted out by then

His father died in June. That was just over 6 months ago. People handle bereavement in different ways. What you say may well be true, but perhaps he is still grieving and not really able to deal sensibly with property decisions. Or perhaps he is just immature - and that is (kinda) ok too, or at least it is if he is young.

He will still be your brother in 40 years time. Would you not cut the guy a bit of slack, just on the off chance that he isn't actually hell bent on deliberately making your life awkward?.
 
Why wait? If you are happy with the valuation you have given him, why not simply offer him the choice between buying you out or being bought out by you at that figure?



His father died in June. That was just over 6 months ago. People handle bereavement in different ways. What you say may well be true, but perhaps he is still grieving and not really able to deal sensibly with property decisions. Or perhaps he is just immature - and that is (kinda) ok too, or at least it is if he is young.

He will still be your brother in 40 years time. Would you not cut the guy a bit of slack, just on the off chance that he isn't actually hell bent on deliberately making your life awkward?.


I know what you mean MOB but this is not the first time this type of crisis has occured. The guy is in his 40's. I arranged everything for Dad, from hospital care, to care home to funeral and he did nothing. I repeat nothing.

I am his younger brother by a considerable margin and have been cutting him slack my whole life. I used to look up to the guy and it took me a long time to come to the conclusion he is a waste of space. Not an easy thing to think about your brother.

I have my own family now and am trying me best to do the best by them. I refuse to let him hold us back as he held me back for years. I just want it over with,

I got a valuation and offered half based on that. He isnt happy so is getting his own. I am prepared to meet somewhere in the middle but wont pay over the odds. Sentimentality does not come into it for the man.

If Dad died 5 years ago or similar i would be paying him a fortune and he would have bitten the hand off me to get it. In saying that, he probably would have wanted more then also!
 
Had a similar situation in my family a few years ago, a relative died and his 3 siblings were looking to sell the house, one was abroad and wanted the house sold and money from it asap, the other 2 were reluctant simply because it was the family home, they were still grieving and wanted to fix the place up and maybe rent it out or keep it, but the 3rd sibling refused, they wanted their money and that was that.. When the other 2 approached about buying it off them, they accused them of trying to get it on the cheap and wanted open market price and it done with..

So after many heated debates, they put it on the market, for a price that would sell and it did.. the 3rd sibling got their money and that was that.

6 months later, the property came back on the market, some basic work was done, cleaned up, painted, guttering replaced, double glazing windows put into it, new kitchen, new bathroom suite, not a lot spent but enough to polish it up a little and make it more presentable and it sold for well over double what they sold it for initially..

The 3rd sibling when they found out were kicking themselves and probably still are about how much they lost out on and what the possibilities were..

My advice, offer your brother a few options:

  • Put it on the market at his price, if no movement after 3 months, it goes to your price and you handle the sale, all costs are covered from the sale, he gets his cut and thats it, he has no more say in it.
  • You buy him out (Date for this must be set)
  • He buys you out (again, date for this must be set)
  • Let the courts decide and remind him of the costs involved in getting a solicitor, (added to if he's on the other side of the world). If he is as tight as you say, he wont want this.

Either way, you engage with him, either directly or through a solicitor. With each contact, give him a date, that if he doesn't reply by, you take an action.

Such as, I have been in contact with an estate agent regarding the sale and the house is going on the market for X amount. If I don't hear back from you with alternative price, I shall instruct the EA to do so on the X of X.

You don't necessarily have to do this, but the threat of you going ahead without his consent might get him to move on things as he isnt there personally to over see them.

By your own admission, he doesn't contact you unless its in his best interest to do so, there is no sentiment lost there and he doesn't treat you with any respect, so why should you do that to him.

Personally, dealing with someone like that, whether it be family or not, I'd keep it as brief and straight to the facts as possible, if he gets awkward, get a solicitor involved and go the legal route. Either way, it gets sorted, and he is pressed into action.

In the meantime, would it be possible to rent out the property on a short term basis to cover the costs and keep the house in a liveable condition as property left unoccupied can become damp and unkempt?

I.C
 
Thanks for the advice Chappie. My only question is this. If he point blank refuses to acknowledge me and solicitor, what would my rights be? Can i sell without his permission? After all, i own 50%.

Surely I dont need his permission? Surely i dont need to wait untill the price comes up to a level that suits him?
 
I hate to point this out but your brother is a co-executor and any contract for sale would have to be jointly signed by both of you.
Have you engaged a solicitor to extract a grant , if so you should seek his advise as to the best way to sort this matter.
 
Back
Top