Health Insurance Should a healthy 35 year old take out basic insurance?

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alwaysonit

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The recommendation in the top pinned key post here is that health insurance is very bad value, but basic insurance should be taken out now to avoid paying more later.
We are charged 2% more for each year over 35 we did not have insurance.
The cheapest plan shown on hia.ia comarison is €483 per annum.

Assuming, when 65, I will want a plan costing €2k per annum, if I don't have any previous years insurance I will be charged 60% loading - €3,200 per annum.

Do the majority think that paying 15k over the next 30 years is worth saving this loading premium (if we expect it to still be an issue in 30 years time)?
 
A very good question when you put it like that.

However, although basic health insurance is poor value for a healthy 35 year old, you are getting some value.
So, you are probably "wasting" €7k to avoid that loading.

I think health insurance probably becomes good value before age 65 as well.

You could put the €483 into a separate health expenses fund and self-insure.

Brendan
 
Most people are fairly healthy until late 30s. Chronic health issues tend to appear from mid 40s and it really takes off from late 50s. So statistically and on a population basis you are usually fine until around 45, possibly later if you have good genes and a healthy lifestyle.

However... having worked in both private and public hospitals, and having been a patient in both, I'm very glad I have good private insurance.

If you rely on the HSE for everything then you will get good quality care in general but you are looking at long waiting lists. As an example, I needed a scan when I was 30. Requested in public hospital where I was a staff member. Estimated 6 month wait. I went private a few weeks later, fully covered by insurance, would have cost €€€ that I did not have at the time. Thought I had been taken off the public list. Got an appointment letter 4 years later!!

If you decide to go private for surgery as a self payer the numbers are eye-watering. That €15k would not get you far.

On another note, health insurance is a requirement for most travel insurance. You do not want to get stuck in USA without it but even in Europe the EHIC (E111) doesn't cover everything.

I have met many people who regret cancelling/limiting their private cover. I would rather get rid of my car.
 
arbitron said:
If you decide to go private for surgery as a self payer the numbers are eye-watering. That €15k would not get you far.
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I don't know the statistics well but I've always had at least minimum-level private cover from a young age. My 26-year-old self was unlikely to develop anything serious but I wanted the very low probability covered.

This is in fact how most insurance works. It's for catastrophic events, not manageable ones. With home insurance you are really covering your house burning down or a burst pipe causing ceiling plaster to cave in. You are very likely to get very much back for a force entry for a break in for example.
 
True. Most people can manage the day-to-day expenses but if you are waiting years for a knee replacement or cataract surgery and decide to go private then it's another story.

What if you are unhappy with the advice/approach in the public hospital? No point in getting a 2nd opinion if you can't afford the private hospital stay.

Private hospitals have changed radically over the past 10-15 years too with many of them treating emergencies, running full ICUs, etc. so it's no longer a case of the public hospitals being the only option for major illnesses or surgery.

Insurance plans with an excess payment are a good compromise, so you get the benefit of cover with a reduced premium.
 
But the private hospitals were all closed during covid, I know people got a rebate from the insurance companies but did it really compensate them for all that time where you could not get treatment?

On top of that there are now waiting lists even for insured people due to the backlog from the covid lockdowns. And are not the government buying treatments in private hospitals for public patients aswell in order to get around some waiting lists?
Does this not add to the waiting times for private patients thus reducing the previous advantages of health insurance?

I think if you are healthy you are better off taking your chances going uninsured until after 50 and then just pay the loading from then on. I think health insurance for young healthy people is really questionable
 
Life is a game of chance and everyone has a different appetite for risk. Everyone will also have different levels of savings, tolerance for pain/discomfort, etc. The value of health insurance depends on whether you are looking at statistics and median outcomes or if you take all the other elements into account.

The truth is that if we had a fully funded and properly managed public health service we would not need private health insurance at all.
 
arbitron said:
Life is a game of chance and everyone has a different appetite for risk. Everyone will also have different levels of savings, tolerance for pain/discomfort, etc. The value of health insurance depends on whether you are looking at statistics and median outcomes or if you take all the other elements into account.

The truth is that if we had a fully funded and properly managed public health service we would not need private health insurance at all.
Click to expand...
But would "Paddy" be prepared to pay the higher PRSI/USC needed to fund it?
 
alwaysonit said:
The cheapest plan shown on hia.ia comarison is €483 per annum.

Assuming, when 65, I will want a plan costing €2k per annum, if I don't have any previous years insurance I will be charged 60% loading - €3,200 per annum.

Do the majority think that paying 15k over the next 30 years is worth saving this loading premium (if we expect it to still be an issue in 30 years time)?
Click to expand...

Most people who can afford it will be paying tax and eligible for the 20% tax relief so the €483 premium is really costing you €386 or €11.5k over the 30 years. And there will probably be something else in that time that you will find claimable in that time so the cost to avoid the loading premium is be lower again.

You would also need to factor in the cost of waiting periods. At 65, you would be very likely to have some pre-existing conditions that your policy won't cover for at least 2 years so that is an expensive 2 years with no 'return' from your policy

NoRegretsCoyote said:
This is in fact how most insurance works. It's for catastrophic events, not manageable ones.
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This is the key, I think it would be an unlikely event that someone would choose not to have the most basic premium and then want a very expensive one at 65. From at least 40, all those niggles start to become more noticeable so choosing the right level of cover for your situation is more important than trying to avoid the 2% premium loading.
 
alwaysonit said:
The recommendation in the top pinned key post here is that health insurance is very bad value, but basic insurance should be taken out now to avoid paying more later.
We are charged 2% more for each year over 35 we did not have insurance.
The cheapest plan shown on hia.ia comarison is €483 per annum.

Assuming, when 65, I will want a plan costing €2k per annum, if I don't have any previous years insurance I will be charged 60% loading - €3,200 per annum.

Do the majority think that paying 15k over the next 30 years is worth saving this loading premium (if we expect it to still be an issue in 30 years time)?
Click to expand...
Worth noting that there is a 5 year waiting period for any pre existing issues if you're starting insurance for the first time. Unless you know exactly the age you may get injured or ill, it seems a risky tactic. 5 years with the loading tacked on would eat into previous savings made.

Insurance covers lots of different things these days. ( VHI previously were the only provider of certain cancer drugs in earlier stages of cancer, with the HSE not covering it and Laya and Irish Life following the HSE list. This has gone quiet in the media since, all I can find is VHI provide access to these drugs on a case by case basis.) In my opinion the real necessity of insurance is for painful chronic conditions/injuries. Non life threatening but debilitating and quality of life destroying, unable to work, mobility reduced etc. For example being in level 7-10 pain daily and desperately needing steroid injections. The public system is truly terrible in these conditions. GP/A&E will load you with a prescription for pain killers ( which aren't helping much therefore the need for injections ) and send you on your way. Likely wait is 6 - 18 months just to see someone. For example with a back issue, that wait would be to see an "advanced physiotherapist". Then you have to wait for them to refer you to the consultants team. You'll likely see one of the team's doctors instead of the consultant. Then you have to wait again for them to refer you for the injections. Total wait can easily be 2-3 years or more. After that if you need surgery you'll have to be referred on to that waiting list. The potential mental & financial damage this can do to a person is huge.

Privately you'll have the injections within 1-4 weeks. Those injections can cost €700-€1000 euro a go and you may need them as much as every few weeks. Any self pay money would be gone fast. Not to mention the cost of surgery if that ends up necessary.
 
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Like everything in life, it's all about choices. If you can afford private health insurance my advice is, get it and have a fair grasp of your families health issues. If you cannot afford it, the problem is solved for you, no decision. If you drink and smoke and say you can't afford to pay for health insurance, that's your choice too, but don't say you can't afford it. Over the years I've had lots and lots of tests and scans annually. I've had a pace maker and defibrillator fitted, and many other smaller procedures carried out. There's a history of sudden death in the family although I'm considered very healthy!!!! Yeah, funny I know. I'm in no doubt at all that without private health insurance I would not be walking this earth. I've had it since I married many many years ago. It also gives me a great sense of ease and comfort in knowing I will get whatever I need, if I need it, and when I need it. The fitting of the defib alone would have cost €27k/€30k. A few things to think about there. In my 30's I had my appendix out, broke a foot and 2 wrist fractures. Law of averages says you'll be ok when you're youngish, but who is average and who isn't? Therein lies the dilemma.
 
It's unlikely you'll be able to claim anything on a policy that low, so there's very little value to it other than saving yourself the future loading. You need to pay much bigger money to have decent cover and to cover yourself for things like those expensive cancer injections, you'd need to be on a top policy costing you the guts of a couple of grand a year for that kind of treatment.

The HSE will cover you for emergency cover and life threatening illness. It's downfall for the most part is non emergency things like cataract removals and knee replacements etc. One thing that's becoming an increasingly popular option for treatment for the non insured is to go abroad for the procedure. It can be much cheaper and to a higher standard. I have experience of this and it worked out very well. I liked that I was able to look for a consultant that specialised in my specific problem, read reviews of the hospital, go for the treatment and stay in a 5 star like hospital. I know it's not an option for everyone but it works and is becoming increasingly popular.
 

Winter may be ‘hell on earth’ for hospital patients and staff if projections correct, says Dr Fergal Hickey​

Emergency Department Task Force report shows more than 40,000 times when patients waiting over 24 hours this year.​


Headlines in today's Irish Times.

If anyone really thinks they will be ok with our public hospital cover this winter, they would want to get their heads examined.

Get Health insurance if at all possible.
 
I've had health insurance since I started working and I am healthy. I had a parent who had a lot of illness growing up and I saw first hand the benefit and the security it gave. It was painful to pay it at the start but it's just part of life now. Ultimately once you are in hospital the actual care you get is the same whether public or private I think. What health insurance does give you is access Quicker access to most things-consultants, scans, tests which is a sad state of affairs but that's the reality imho and that's something that really matters if you are in agony with some condition.
 
Rosjohn said:
But would "Paddy" be prepared to pay the higher PRSI/USC needed to fund it?
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I have heard it argued by many that Paddy already does pay for a properly funded health service. A properly managed health service is a completely different thing that Paddy has little or no control over.

Anyway, this Paddy would happily pay more tax "if" he knew, that if myself or any loved ones ever needed medical care of any kind, they would get it quickly and efficiently. A large number of people pay thousands for private health insurance, what's the difference if its paid in tax - if the care is guaranteed at the end of it, of course.
 
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