If you move out, the game changes, then you are into access territory. or likewise if she moves out and takes the children with her. We have seen it first hand with a stepchild. a crying lying mother gains alot of ground with judges....sadly.My nett income, before the massive mortgage, comes in at just under €40,000. The costs of going to the Circuit Court would essentially be a year of my nett income, or c. 3 years of it after the most basic living expenses have been met. Is there a smarter way to do this? Give up my job and apply for legal aid? Cut down my hours? (but I'm struggling financially already, depending upon my credit card and overdraft for living - something I can show evidence for going back years).
Has anybody brought their own family law case to the Circuit Court? How difficult would it be?
Thanks. I've been told it would definitely be going to the Circuit Court rather than the District Court as both incomes and the value of the house would make this so. Costs and the length of the case apparently increase as a result, although many cases are settled before reaching the court.
Why would I need to apply for "access"? Why wouldn't the children's mother have to do so? From day one, we have both shared everything and, if anything, I have spent more time with them as my job facilitates that (as mentioned in the op). The three times since the eldest was born that I have left home for work (for less than a week each time), I have paid the childminder. I have never spent time away from them outside that. Is there something in law which says the man must apply for access but the woman doesn't have to? (I'm their birth father, as recorded on their birth certs, we are legally married under Irish law, and I legally own half the house).
I've heard of people splitting the house but it's not possible here without great expense (we renovated the whole place in recent years). Moreover, for a wide range of psychological reasons I need to have as little to do with her as possible. Yes, I know I am "stuck" with her until the kids are adults, but I need to minimise that. Having equal parenting responsibilities and thus no maintenance, for instance, would therefore reduce her control over me. Similarly, having two separate homes at a distance from each other would reduce her involvement in my life. Also, if the children were to spend weekends/2 nights with their father as a common "solution", why can't courts allow them to spend 4/3/3/4 in rotation (4 nights with mother, 3 nights with father, 3 nights with mother; 4 nights with father)? How is having a fair distribution of parenting/homes less stable for the kids than having a 5/2/5/2 distribution of nights between each home?
The house is an enormous issue because if I have to continue paying a mortgage on it for the next 18 years (until the youngest is 23), I will never get a mortgage for my own place at a time when there is €300,000 plus in equity in the home. I will be condemned to paying more than a mortgage in rent in flatland, which in reality means poverty because the existing mortgage on a very nice property in a nice area is half my current net salary. The fact that I would need a three-bedroomed flat to accommodate the children adds to the financial suffocation. If that worst-case scenario were to happen, what are my options?
It's not a little ironic that in trying to get out of her control, she could be getting more control over my life than ever, sanctioned by the Irish State.
Separation/Divorce... when mediation fails
- Thread starter itsovernow
- Start date
If you move out, the game changes, then you are into access territory. or likewise if she moves out and takes the children with her. We have seen it first hand with a stepchild. a crying lying mother gains alot of ground with judges....sadly.
Yes
Edit to add: applying for divorce post JS can be an opportunity to reopen settlement terms. When divorce legislation was first passed in 1997; it wasn't unusual for that to happen.
Having said that in recent years, in general, JS terms are upheld in Divorce applications unless there is material evidence that assets or other information was withheld.
In terms of the actual difference between a JS and divorce the only additional thing you get is the right to re-marry.
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I second Thirsty's suggestion, if you don't already have a counsellor get one! I would strongly argue its the best investment you can make right now even if you feel you don't have the money.
Like others on this thread, I've been through the system and I will tell you that whatever ideal solution you have in your head right now - you will not get it. And that's not because the courts wont give it to you - but more that's the way life is. There are so many different things that could happen over the years it will take for your kids to become adults that can impact on how this will play out.
I feel your pain and stress, I've been there as well and went the whole way to a hearing in court finally getting close to what I had offered in mediation years and thousands of euros earlier. I really thought in the middle of it all I would never be done. Everything that could be thrown at me was. But what got me through was having a great counsellor and sensible friends who kept me grounded. And hardest of all, taking the high road - not bloody easy when you feel you're losing your mind and your kids.
Now two years later, I'm in a much better place and in my own home but its not all rosy. I'm still working on supporting my kids through the after effects of the upheaval they've been through.
Regarding access, in reality both parents need to seek access, you are both legal guardians but there is no automatic assumption as to who has access, that's one of the things you either agree or a Judge decides. Given my kids are now teenagers that involves a lot of counting to 100 (sometimes 1000) and not pulling out the access agreement every time they decide they want to stay in their other house. At different stages one of my kids has been away from my house for extended periods of time (I'm talking months of no real face to face contact), but by "rising above it" and keeping the door open they have come back with a new outlook regarding their cool best mate parent vs the rule setting parent they "escaped".
This will probably be the hardest thing you go through, so again get that counsellor, but you will get through it.
On the money side - again I was probably in a similar position to you. I initially took out a loan to cover my legal costs which ultimately got wrapped into my new mortgage - not the must cost efficient way to manage but its what worked for me. (I can imagine the askaboutmoney comments on that one
and please no one tell me how much that is ultimately going to cost me - I know and its worth it!)
Like others on this thread, I've been through the system and I will tell you that whatever ideal solution you have in your head right now - you will not get it. And that's not because the courts wont give it to you - but more that's the way life is. There are so many different things that could happen over the years it will take for your kids to become adults that can impact on how this will play out.
I feel your pain and stress, I've been there as well and went the whole way to a hearing in court finally getting close to what I had offered in mediation years and thousands of euros earlier. I really thought in the middle of it all I would never be done. Everything that could be thrown at me was. But what got me through was having a great counsellor and sensible friends who kept me grounded. And hardest of all, taking the high road - not bloody easy when you feel you're losing your mind and your kids.
Now two years later, I'm in a much better place and in my own home but its not all rosy. I'm still working on supporting my kids through the after effects of the upheaval they've been through.
Regarding access, in reality both parents need to seek access, you are both legal guardians but there is no automatic assumption as to who has access, that's one of the things you either agree or a Judge decides. Given my kids are now teenagers that involves a lot of counting to 100 (sometimes 1000) and not pulling out the access agreement every time they decide they want to stay in their other house. At different stages one of my kids has been away from my house for extended periods of time (I'm talking months of no real face to face contact), but by "rising above it" and keeping the door open they have come back with a new outlook regarding their cool best mate parent vs the rule setting parent they "escaped".
This will probably be the hardest thing you go through, so again get that counsellor, but you will get through it.
On the money side - again I was probably in a similar position to you. I initially took out a loan to cover my legal costs which ultimately got wrapped into my new mortgage - not the must cost efficient way to manage but its what worked for me. (I can imagine the askaboutmoney comments on that one
and please no one tell me how much that is ultimately going to cost me - I know and its worth it!)