Selling and buying - confusing advice

[pennywise]

Hi

I need advice from people who have experience in selling and buying in a chain. We have finally decided to sell our apartment and buy a house. We have started the process to get a tracker mover with PTSB. We have a large enough deposit and do not require additional funds.

We have started visiting houses, all well within our budget, and will be putting our apartment up for sale in 2 weeks time. We have also secured rental accommodation in case we end up being in between properties.

The advice I read on various websites, including this one, is to try and sell the apartment first as no estate agent will entertain us until we are sale agreed. However, the mortgage manager I saw advised to start putting offers on properties as 1) we have a limited time to complete the sale and purchase (6 months), and 2) PTSB need an evaluation of the property we want to purchase to complete the approval (although he also said we could be approved on the basis of an amount rather than a specific property).

I wonder whether we should start expressing an interest in the properties we like. Do you have to have a proof that your property is sale agreed before you can make an offer?

Thanks

 

[cremeegg]

no estate agent will entertain us until we are sale agreed.

This is nonsense, no estate agent will know anything about you except what you tell them.

When it comes to signing contracts you should obviously not commit to a closing date unless you have a similar closing date agreed on your own sale. Up to that point you shouldn't tell the vendors agent anything about your finances.

Do you have to have a proof that your property is sale agreed before you can make an offer?

No

 

[peteb]

I've a property up for sale at the moment and my understanding is that the estate agent will be checking to ensure people have some element of finance in place before accepting an offer formally. This ain't the boom times anymore. There's no more going in blind.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

A good estate agent will not entertain bids from anyone who has not demonstrated that they can make a valid offer.

Cremeegg is right in saying that you don't need to tell them anything. But then they would be stupid to entertain any offers from you.

It's tough to the choreography right. And it's tougher when trying to move your tracker.

So, put your apartment on the market.
Do view houses, but you can't put in an offer until you have gone sale agreed on your own. Or to be more exact, you can put in an offer, but it will be conditional on the sale of your own property, so it will not be accepted.
You can't sign a contract to buy until you have signed a contract to sell.

Brendan

 

[cremeegg]

but you can't put in an offer until you have gone sale agreed on your own. Or to be more exact, you can put in an offer, but it will be conditional on the sale of your own property, so it will not be accepted.

This is quiet incorrect.

There is no requirement to make any offer conditional, indeed it would be foolish to do so.

No mention should be made of any condition of sale until exchange of contracts. That might be many weeks after an offer. Weeks during which you progress your own sale.

You can't sign a contract to buy until you have signed a contract to sell.

Whatever about can't, you certainly shouldn't.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

cremeegg

You can rock up to a viewing , refuse to tell the auctioneer your surname or your current contact details and make an offer.

The reality is that any decent estate agent will want proof that your offer is a valid offer. They will ask you if you have mortgage approval and if you are selling your own home. You can lie away, but it won't help you get the house.

I believe in being honest with people. It's not fair to the vendors to lie that you are making a genuine offer, when you are not in a position to complete the sale.

Brendan

 

[cremeegg]

If the OP has their house on the market and expects to sell before buying. At this point I think it is perfectly reasonable to make an unconditional
offer.

By the time it comes to exchanging contracts the OP genuinely expects to be in a position to sign unconditionally. Of course something unforeseen could happen in the meantime, to derail that expectation, but it is reasonable for the OP to work on the assumption that he will be able to exchange contracts on the basis of his offer at that time.

To draw an estate agents attention to any possible pitfalls would, in my opinion be foolish.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

To draw an estate agents attention to any possible pitfalls would, in my opinion be foolish.

cremeegg - the estate agent's first question when an offer is made is "Do you have to sell your own house first or are you a cash buyer?"

What do you respond? "Mind you own business!" ?

Brendan

 

[Leo]

I'm currently in the market and have made offers on a few properties at this point. Limited enough experience but quite different than my last time around buying. For the agents I've dealt with, all offers must now be submitted in writing (fax or email), and will only be accepted upon receipt of confirmation from my solicitor that I have the funds currently available to complete the purchase.

So you could in effect lie to the agent, and if you have a good relationship with your solicitor, they might submit the confirmation of funds, but you run the risk of losing the property if they find out you have been lying when it comes to agreeing a closing date.

A lot will depend on the circumstances of the property you're looking to buy and how quickly the current owners want to close. If you can move your own on quickly (perhaps taking a hit on the price to ensure that it does sell quickly), you may be able to work it out. But with the market moving as it is now, agents seem to have very little interest in getting into chains.

 

[XMarks]

I recently bought a house. Like Leo the first question the estate agent asked was did we have to sell our house.

Any offer we made had to be in writing and accompanied by proof of funds for the entire offer amount. We were told without that our offer would not be accepted.

Wait until your apartment is on the market before looking. Only offer when you are sale agreed. Get your mortgage agreed in principle now.

 

[pennywise]

Thanks. I'm not happy to lie, anyway. I know full well that the estate agent I would lie to would eventually find out and it would kill our chances of making any offer on other properties they may have. In our area, there is a few agents, and I meet them at most viewings, so there is no chance I could get away with it (plus I'm honest to a fault, I can't lie for my life....).
I see from Leo and XMarks experiences that EA will ask for proof of funds and that they won't even aknowledge our offers if our apartment is not yet on the way to be sold. That's what I wanted to confirm. I guess I'll have to ensure that the apartment sells fast (should be helped by the fact that it will be immediately available, we are not waiting for the purchase to move out)

Again, many thanks for your help

 

[deeobrien]

I've put offers on two different properties in recent months. All were via phone and nobody asked to see proof of funds. I did make sure to tell them I wasn't in a chain (in case that helped my case!). It seems strange asking for a solicitors letter when making an offer. That means running up a bill with the solicitor before an offer is even accepted. First time around I didn't engage my solicitor until after going sale agreed. First first sale agreed attempt fell through 2 months into the deal (costing me about €1000) so I'm very slow to incur any costs this time until I have to.

 

[Andy836]

Depends on the estate agent.

In the last 18 months, every house we bid on required an email from the bank stating we had a sufficient approved mortgage amount and cash deposit to support our bid.

You can bid whatever you want. Don't be put off bidding if you see something you like. Closing will take an age anyway and possibly the seller might not yet have closed on their next property. Sometimes delays can suit some people.

 

[Sarenco]

Any agent that doesn't insist on receiving proof of funds these days really isn't doing their job properly IMO.

There are a lot of time wasters out there...

 

[cremeegg]

cremeegg - the estate agent's first question when an offer is made is "Do you have to sell your own house first or are you a cash buyer?"

What do you respond? "Mind you own business!" ?

Brendan

I am never rude like that, (except here on occasion )

I would reply "my sale is going through at the moment".

Which is true even if the only stage of the sale process that has actually completed is my decision to sell.

If I wanted to show the EA my seriousness about the bid I might even add something like, "so if we are going to avoid having to move in with the in-laws we will have to close fairly soon". Although personally I would think that might be a sign of weakness rather than strength.

 

[LS400]

I've put offers on two different properties in recent months. All were via phone and nobody asked to see proof of funds. I did make sure to tell them I wasn't in a chain/QUOTE]

Same here 2 times round recently, was not asked to furnish proof at all, from either of the Agents. I know if I were selling, I would insist on seeing proof of funds though.

 

[cremeegg]

It seems that there are some very different experiences out there

From these

For the agents I've dealt with, all offers must now be submitted in writing (fax or email), and will only be accepted upon receipt of confirmation from my solicitor that I have the funds currently available to complete the purchase.

I recently bought a house. Like Leo the first question the estate agent asked was did we have to sell our house.

Any offer we made had to be in writing and accompanied by proof of funds for the entire offer amount. We were told without that our offer would not be accepted.

In the last 18 months, every house we bid on required an email from the bank stating we had a sufficient approved mortgage amount and cash deposit to support our bid.

to this

I've put offers on two different properties in recent months. All were via phone and nobody asked to see proof of funds. I did make sure to tell them I wasn't in a chain (in case that helped my case!).

Bear in mind that an EA can ask for anything that they want you are under no obligation to provide it to them.

It seems to me that this asking for proof of funds is a recent development. A lot of houses were sold by banks recently and they seem to have introduced this idea. Maybe EAs are going with it generally now.

It seems to me a gross intrusion that if buyers were sensible they would reject. If a potential buyer was to ask for proof of other bids, I think the EA would refuse. The two seem equally unreasonable to me.

If people expect to be treated badly and are willing to accept being treated badly, what can they expect.

 

[Sarenco]

Putting the boot on the other foot, if I was selling a property in today’s market I wouldn’t dream of accepting any offer that wasn’t accompanied by proof of funds - there are just too many dreamers and time wasters out there.

It obviously follows that I wouldn’t use any EA that didn’t understand the importance of obtaining proof of funds.

If a potential buyer regarded such a request as a “gross intrusion”, well, that would be a red flag for me - I’d just move on to find somebody that was in a position to do a deal...

 

[Steven Barrett]

Hi

I need advice from people who have experience in selling and buying in a chain. We have finally decided to sell our apartment and buy a house. We have started the process to get a tracker mover with PTSB. We have a large enough deposit and do not require additional funds.

We have started visiting houses, all well within our budget, and will be putting our apartment up for sale in 2 weeks time. We have also secured rental accommodation in case we end up being in between properties.

The advice I read on various websites, including this one, is to try and sell the apartment first as no estate agent will entertain us until we are sale agreed. However, the mortgage manager I saw advised to start putting offers on properties as 1) we have a limited time to complete the sale and purchase (6 months), and 2) PTSB need an evaluation of the property we want to purchase to complete the approval (although he also said we could be approved on the basis of an amount rather than a specific property).

I wonder whether we should start expressing an interest in the properties we like. Do you have to have a proof that your property is sale agreed before you can make an offer?

Thanks

It's a balancing act trying to time selling your own property and getting a new one. The vendor of the house you want to buy is probably doing the same thing, so they won't wait 6/9 months for you to sell yours so they can buy somewhere.

You have your alternative accommodation sorted so get your apartment on the market. When gone sale agreed on your own, then start shopping for your new home.

 

[dishwasher]

I’ve posted about our experience before which was that estate agent knew we had somewhere to sell so wouldn’t take a bid until we were sale agreed on our own.

Offer in writing with proof of fund. As we were moving in the same area, agents knew our position just from address. Our “chain” was that our buyer was keeping his own to rent and we were buying a probate sale. Even with that “simple” a chain it was very difficult to pull off.