Seller relocating septic tank - planning?

S

Solonoid

Guest
Hello All,

I am in the process of buying an older (1920s) house with half an acre in the midwest. Currently at Sale Agreed, and the vendor is finishing marking out the boundary and a few other points before structural survey, which is required for my mortgage.

Now, the original (and I would imagine fairly old) septic tank is located within the farmland that the vendor will be retaining. Mortgage co raised a query on this, and vendor decided that to make things simpler, he would relocate the septic tank (or in effect decomission the old one and put down a new one) within the half acre.

He says (and the EA says) that planning is not needed for this, because it is a "pre-1965" dwelling, and it is only a relocation, and not a new additional system.

My solicitor does not know either way, and says I should find out myself.

Would anyone on here know if this advice from vendor and EA is correct?

Obviously, it's nice to have a brand new system, but I'm worried that either the structural surveyor will report it as "unauthorised development" and stop the mortage from being granted, or that there could be planning problems further down the line.

Tried asking the Co. Council, and got a reply back asking which housebuilding planning permission request this was related to.

Advice welcome!

Solonoid
 
Yes, I would imagine that the council would want to know the site of the new septic tank. Whether it is in a suitable place, and located the required distance from the house, etc.etc. and whether it is a different type to the existing one.Your safest bet is to see the planner and discuss what is proposed before you buy. Dont take anyone's word that everything will be OK, after all they want to sell to you ? From my limited knowledge the ground has to be suitable for the tank and needs to be tested. ( at least that's what goes on around here.
 
"From my limited knowledge the ground has to be suitable for the tank and needs to be tested."


Swallows is correct in this I feel. The suitability of the ground on your site for septic tank percolation is the key issue here. The fact that the house was built pre-1965 is irrelevant. Where there is a possibility that the water-table could be polluted etc the Co Council takes a serious view when septic tanks are moved without permission. Call them straight away for advice.
 
you could also get in touch with the structural engineer you intend to do your survey and get him/her to comment.
 
Thanks to all, will do.

The vendor may have already gone ahead and installed in the last 48 hours, but I'm assuming that I can't be held liable for any legal penalties as he is still the owner, no contracts signed, and I didn't ask him to do this, he just thought it would avoid complications.

Solonoid
 
Don't ever take legal or planning advice from a vendor or estate agent. If the vendor can give you a certificate of compliance with planning permission and building regulations from a suitably qualified engineer, fair enough, but somehow I doubt that will be forthcoming here. Get your own engineer and pay for proper advice from an expert.
 
Solonoid said:
My solicitor does not know either way, and says I should find out myself.
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Sounds to me like the solicitor is passing the buck here, so as not to get in the way of the sale. Planning law is planning law, and as your legal professional, I would think it prudent for your solicitor to find out the postion and advise you as to your position.

I would guess that moving a septic tank to a new location constitutes development of land and therefore would require planning permission, but I certainly would expect my solicitor to be able to clarify this.
 
We looked at a property with a similar issue earlier this year. In our case the septic tank needed upgrading (it was pre-65 also). After lots of toing and froing to planning they told us that seeing as it was an upgrade of an existing (faltering) system they may look favourably on any application to upgrade pending percolation tests/soil samples etc. That was the most commitment we could get, even off the record. We decided not to keep up the bidding even though I really wanted that house. Bear in mind that this was not moving the tank as in your case but merely replacing a leaking faulty system. You really need to speak to a Council planner asap.
 
Sounds to me like the solicitor is passing the buck here, so as not to get in the way of the sale. Planning law is planning law, and as your legal professional, I would think it prudent for your solicitor to find out the postion and advise you as to your position.
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Solicitors will not usually do more than give general advice on planning issues- these are issues for engineers to give authoritative advice on. If the op were my client I would advise that the Vendor should be in a position to give the appropriate certificates of compliance with planning and building regs from a suitably qualified engineer- in the absence of this the purchaser should have their own engineer advise.
 
Again, thanks to all for the advice.

Didn't manage to speak to my engineer today despite repeated calls. He is due to do the survey soon in any case.

I'll contact the vendors, and strongly advise them that they should seek advice from the local planning department before going ahead with this.

They will have to apply for planning (or retention if they have already put it in) and depending on the result then I could proceed with the purchase or not. (I'm not in a chain, and don't already own my own house, so I'm in a good position to sit it out and wait for a few months if this has to be done).

I'll let you know what transpires . . .

Solonoid.
 
Maybe the legal professional will do a bit of work for his fee. Has he suggested that the vendor grant an easement or right of way to you in the event that your planning is not sucessful. In the meantime it may be a good idea to have a suitably qualified individual to perform a site suitability assessment. At least then you will know if the site has a suitable percolation area. Remember the minimum distances specified in the EPA manual
 
"Maybe the legal professional will do a bit of work for his fee. Has he suggested that the vendor grant an easement or right of way to you in the event that your planning is not sucessful."

This is a good suggestion: it allows the buyer to go ahead and be guaranteed the use of the existing (planning exempt) septic tank OR a new planning-approved septic tank\effluent treatment plant. This is the exact solution which I have used in similar circumstances when acting for a house buyer.

However, on the suggestion that the legal professional will "do a bit of work for his fee", the work in setting up this easement would definitely be in the category of work over and above what was quoted for.

It would be nonsense to expect any remotely business-like solicitor to do this extra work without charging extra for it (actually, to be prefectly frank, I did it without charging extra - but I did myself wrong, and would not make the same mistake again).

I would budget an extra €250 - €350 plus VAT on the fee, though perhaps the vendor's solicitor might do most of the work, which would reduce this somewhat.
 
Isnt it amazing that a solicitor who is charging a massive amount for what is routine work did not suggest what seems to be a relatively painless solution. Of course the solicitor will make this out to be a massive job. Take a long time to complete in order to justify a big fee.
 
Vendor had originally offered an easement (or wayleave) for 5 years only, solicitor advised me to reject this, as it cold leave me with an uninhabitable and unsalable property.

Will proceed as per earlier post, and will only sign if there is planning permission/retention. They are unlikely to be able to sell it to anyone else in the meantime for the same reason, and I'm not in a screaming hurry.

Solonoid
 
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