Self build or contractor

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seamus357

Registered User
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Hi Folks,
My wife and I are planning on building a new house this year. We have a site in Kilkenny and just got planning for a 2,500 sq. ft. two storey house. I would like to go direct labour as it's a lot cheaper but I don't think I have the experience or knowledge. Also we both work a good distance away (a 90 min. drive) from our new house site. Can you give me an estimate of the total cost per sq. ft. of building a house using a contractor? I think it's the best option for us.

Thanks,

Seamus
 
Even with a builder you're still going to find it tough going imo living that far away from your site. If you use the search facility up on top you will find several threads on build costs - my own experience and that of some of my family is that you can expect a huge variation in the prices you get quoted by builders.
 
There are loads of threads detailing costs per sq ft and they vary wildly but around the €100-€120/sp ft is the ball park. But that is subject to a lot of variables, such as type of build, heating system, windows the list goes on and on.
In project management there is an age old triangle called the time money quality tri.......if you are on top of two you are doing incredibly well.....one is the norm!
My advise to you as follows,

Set a budget,
then decide on a house,
then decide on a build type,
then decide on a finish,
then start getting quotes and see what you can and can't do!! And prob revisit all the others after that again!!

You will find your budget will make alot of the decisions for you, that is unless money is not an issue.

I'm just outta of one build (my parents refurb) and starting another (my own) and I find that unless you have a definite plan things get out of hand and you will not see the wood from the trees. We had to go back to the drawing board more than once with the refurb as we were unsure when we started exactly what we wanted.

Oh buy the homebond book (any easons circa €45), a must have for anyone from novice to expert!
 
If you do decide to go with builder, check with people whose houses he has built, you will get a fair idea of how good he is. I got alot of quotes but went with the builder, and saw house he was building at the time, based on recommendations.
 
Don't just look at the building contractor's previous builds - make sure to talk to the people living in them. There may be all sorts of issues that aren't visible, also they can give an idea of how responsible, reliable, trustworthy, and quality-conscious the contractor is. Things are improving (slowly) for the buyer at the minute, so be choosy - don't just go with the first available and affordable guy. Good luck.

(Speaking from experience...)
 
I am in the middle of a build at the moment and have gone down the contractor route. Before deciding we went to a conference/lecture ;) so that we could be as informed as possible when making our choices. The message from the entire day was to get a contractor unless you're a tradesperson and know others. I'm glad we heeded the advice; and that's what I would recommend. If you're a distance away and not in the game yourself I think those facts should make the decision for you. Believe me, you'll have plenty of involvement in 'quality control'! If you are going to go down the contractor route then have a spec prepared before you put the plans out for tender. Good luck :)
 
don't forget you can get a contractor to do a shell build only, doesn't necessarily have to be to builder's finish

you can then procure all the tiling and finishing etc. later as funds allow, we contracted directly with the plumber and electrician too.

just make sure you get your site insurance BEFORE a sod is turned, you'll have a mother of a job getting this sorted part way through

given that you're so far away from the site you may want to consider engaging a site/project manager or similar on a p/t basis to cover those eventualities which will arise

good luck!
 
Just wondering if you can give any advice on where to get site insurance sse? Is there any way of ensuring each contractor covers themselves, or is it up to me as the self builder to cover each of them?
 
we got ours from Hibernian through a broker

the problem is that the policies are structured such that you need to take them out when you're looking at a field, i.e. before you start, and they usually run for a fixed period of two years, depending on the size of your project this may not be long enough

a main contractor should have their own insurance covering them for public and employer's liability etc.

if you go down the self-managed route it's clearly vital that you have your own cover in place, not least because if somebody breaks into and trespasses on your property, falls off your scaffolding whilst stealing your tools and breaks their leg YOU are liable

the complexity arises when you have a contractor for a shell build but are handling plumbing, electrical, HRV yourself - typically you will want to interleave these with stages of the shell build and the contractor's cover will not address work they have not contracted to do, and the contractor's insurance will not cover anybody sharing access routes, for example

it is at this point that you realise that you need to have taken the policy out before any work starts at all :-(

however, we got our Hibernian policy when the first fix started, so have the full benefit of the two years, I am not sure if this is their general policy or just a one-off

another approach is to mandate that subcontractors have their own insurance in place, our experience is that some do, some don't - and you will need to put liability cover in place anyway

as always, I recommend you take professional advice, which this isn't!
 
We thought about direct labour v builder. Came to conclusion as above, if you dont work in the trade be prepared to take plenty of time off work. Having gone with a contractor I have seen first hand the kind of issues that arise. Modern houses can be complex especially with things like u/f heating, insulation etc its a minefield. Spoke to one couple , went self build, first thing to happen was he ended up in hospital from cement burns while puting in foundations, not serious luckily and laughs about it now. U/F heating doesnt work and the problem has 'fallen between two stools'. I am sure there are success stories too, for me I wasnt prepared to take on the pressure.

With regard to the Insurance if you go builder they should have Insurance. You probably still need fire in course of construction if you have mortgage and you should ideally get Property Onwners Liablity for site (no building cover). Talk to broker. If you go direct labour, most definetely you would need a self build policy which will cost more.
 
We were originally going to go Direct Labour but after factoring in all the pros and cons of DL v Contract, we went contract. You have to have a lot of spare time to go the DL route and a lot of patience. With a contractor you just hand over all the work to them and all you need to do is make the odd decision (windows, doors etc etc) and keep in contact with the contractor as much as possible. Our contractor is doing a builders finish (everything bar the kitchen, bathrooms and floors) and we've gotten in someone to do the central vacuum system ourselves. Comes to approx €119 per Sq Ft for a 2477sq ft house (builders finish). A lot more expensive the DL but it will be done a hell of a lot quicker and will a lot less stress.
 
Seamus,
Think it through carefully and find what works out best for you.

Building a house is a challenge in most people's books. Living that distance away adds an extra headache to the mix.
There are times when you need to be around to make decisions which will come thick and fast, even with a main contractor involved. Take him out of it and there are more again to make. It may be difficult over the phone to see an issue and make a call. Is your job flexible enough that you could leave early or slip away if needs be. At certain times during the build if not not mostly, you need to be visiting the site every evening to check on progress/quality or spot any issues.

Deliveries are another thing. Most delivery folk will just lob stuff anywhere and usually not in the right place.

On my project, I wanted to go down the route of a main contractor but could not get a reasonable quote in the end. The build was not straight forward and was priced at a premium. I was forced down the direct labour route. After 3 weeks of excavations and a week digging trenches (very hard ground) and getting concrete in, I took on a site foreman and it was the best move I ever made. I did not need to be around the site as much and I was still heavily involved sourcing materials and subbies and the odd bit of physical work, but he ran the site and ensured my levels of quality were reached.

AndyH
[broken link removed]
 
Hi Andy H

How did You source Your site foreman - are they hard to come by for one off projects?
 
Demps,

If you require I can put you intouch with a number of heavely experenced site foremen?

Regards,

Jaid
 
Seamus,

we just built in Co. Kildare, did it by direct labour, and total project took 11 months. We were complete novices but learnt a lot along the way (definitely recommend the Homebond book for anyone building). We spent a few months before starting the build getting different quotes from contractors for each aspect of the build, and once we decided on each contractor we gave them as much notice as possible as to when we would need them to do the work, so as to avoid delays, and that worked very well. We lived a few miles from the site, and thankfully my husband was in a position to be able to get home from work every evening before the contractors finished for the day, so was able to go over any issues, make decisions, and find out what materials needed to be ordered. During the day, he spent a lot of time ringing around various suppliers getting quotes and ordering materials & deliveries etc. Every evening at home was spent discussing what we needed to organise next, even things like managing the budget, paying bills, paying contractors takes a lot more time that you would think. Once the project advanced a bit, we also spent lots of evenings/weekends at the site doing all the manual work that would be done by a builder if you employed one to manage the entire build - stuff like clearing out rubble, preparation work for the next contractor to come onto the job. The project completely consumed both of us for an entire year and looking back on it now i actually can't believe how much we accomplished - when you're in the thick of it you just keep going and we did put ourselves under pressure to get it completed quickly rather than drag on for longer. So while i am glad we went the direct labour route ourselves, it only worked for us due to the time we were able to give to the project. Had circumstances been different and we didn't have the time available to dedicate to it, then there is no way we would have succeeded.
Cost wise, it worked out at EUR80 sq ft for builders finish (2,600 sq ft, high spec windows, stone facing, granite quoins and cills, 5 bathrooms, solar panels & wood pellet burner) or EUR102 sq ft to finished standard - incl kitchen, appliances, tiling, wooden floors, carpets, fireplaces, wardrobes, light fittings, painting etc).

Hope that helps.
 
bcol1,

I don't suppose you have a breakdown of the costs by any chance? We've submitted planning in Co. Kildare also and we'd be hoping to budget for about €100/sq foot or less if possible. That is if we get permission!
 
Hi Bartbridge,

will root out the costs tomorrow if i get a chance, i do have them but i'd need to kinda organise them. What style & size house are you hoping to build?
 
Jaid

In Your experience what kind of costs are usual for an experienced site foreman? Do they typically work on a flat rate versus %

Thanks
 
Demps said:
Jaid

In Your experience what kind of costs are usual for an experienced site foreman? Do they typically work on a flat rate versus %

Thanks
Click to expand...

Really, I think that would be something you would agree with the individual as I would not agree or disagree anything on there behalf.

What I would say is, agree the hours they are to spend on site per week and work it on from there, the hourly rate varies greatly 30E - 50E per hour and some in excess of that.

They should also keep a site dairy to log progress etc.

If anybody knows any diffrent please post a correction

Hope that helps
 
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