Same sex couples and their human rights

Whenever possible a child should not be denied the right to both a mother and father and the State should not implement policies, for the sake of modernity, which create artificial constructs where a child will be fatherless or motherless.

There are plenty of circumstances where the State intervenes through law to deny the right of a child and it's Father for example. The law is currently all on the Mother's side.

A child should not be denied the right to both it's parents whether that be a mother and father, two mothers or two fathers.
 
How can a child have 2 fathers or 2 mothers?

I mean surely they have to have at least one of each as a bare minimum anyway
 
How can a child have 2 fathers or 2 mothers?

I mean surely they have to have at least one of each as a bare minimum anyway

Fine. two female parents or two male parents. Unless you believe you can't be a parent unless you have personally conceived the child.
 
Fine. two female parents or two male parents. Unless you believe you can't be a parent unless you have personally conceived the child.


It comes back to who would the change benefit and who is the change being brought about for. The childs needs are taking a back seat to those of the adult gay community.
 
It comes back to who would the change benefit and who is the change being brought about for. The childs needs are taking a back seat to those of the adult gay community.

How are the childs needs taking a back seat to those of the adult gay community unless you believe that Gay people only want to adopt or have children for selfish reasons and wouldn't be as good parents as straight couples?
 
Suppose you have a lesbian couple who want to have a child. They find a man who is willing to provide sperm but who also wants to be a part of the child's life. One of the lesbians decides to get pregnant by this man (through IVF or naturally or whatever)

Then suppose the woman who bore the child dies.

Who should get custody of the child?
 
Suppose you have a lesbian couple who want to have a child. They find a man who is willing to provide sperm but who also wants to be a part of the child's life. One of the lesbian's decides to get pregnant by this man (through IVF or naturally or whatever)

Then suppose the woman who bore the child dies.

Who should get custody of the child?

Same as if man and woman get married, woman has child with other man (by whatever means) and who wants to stay involved but the child is brought up mainly by the woman and her husband. The woman dies 9 years later. Who gets custody?

The sexual orientation of the couple shouldn't come into it. ( I realise that this is not realistic)
 
That's fair enough Sunny

However, I'm just curious about what people think should happen
 
That's fair enough Sunny

However, I'm just curious about what people think should happen

Guess it is just one of those horror stories you hear about sometimes in family courts. Wouldn't like to be a judge!
 
How are the childs needs taking a back seat to those of the adult gay community unless you believe that Gay people only want to adopt or have children for selfish reasons and wouldn't be as good parents as straight couples?

I presume everyone who wants to adopt is doing it for selfish reasons. People want a child, i doubt if many would say that I want to adopt purely because a child will be better off with me than without. Why would a gay couple want to adopt if not for the fact that they want a family for themselves.
 
Suppose you have a lesbian couple who want to have a child. They find a man who is willing to provide sperm but who also wants to be a part of the child's life. One of the lesbians decides to get pregnant by this man (through IVF or naturally or whatever)

Then suppose the woman who bore the child dies.

Who should get custody of the child?

They accept that they physically can't? That is my opinion, whether most think I'm homophobic or not.

This harks back to the 'I want' attitude that most of the population is developing. People all seem to think they are entitled to anything they want.
 
I presume everyone who wants to adopt is doing it for selfish reasons. People want a child, i doubt if many would say that I want to adopt purely because a child will be better off with me than without. Why would a gay couple want to adopt if not for the fact that they want a family for themselves.

That is just bizarre. How are people who adopt or go through fertility treatment selfish because they want a family? Why isn't everyone who wants a family selfish?
 
They accept that they physically can't? That is my opinion, whether most think I'm homophobic or not.

This harks back to the 'I want' attitude that most of the population is developing. People all seem to think they are entitled to anything they want.

But you still haven't answered the question as to why the lesbian couple are any different to any heterosexual couple who physically can't have kids.
This thread has gone around in circles so am giving up.
 
No, people want to be equal under the law when attempting to gain access to the things they want.

I don't think that it is even about 'want' it's about equal rights to something you have emotionally invested in. I watched The Frontline the other night and the main gay / lesbian argument was about recognition of non-parent partner as a family member in case of medical emergency, parent's death, etc. Subsequently, this kind of recognition would bring on a different set of rights relating to pensions, inheritance, etc.

Imagine the scenario (all hypotetical, I am happily married most days): my husband walks out on me and our baby son and has no interest in having access or contact. Five years down the line, I end up in a stable, loving lesbian partnership and my new lesbian partner is my son's best friend, enormous support and generally a fantastic replacement for a lousy father who walked away. Another five years on, I die and my loving, caring lesbian partner has to hand over my son to either un-interested father or the state? How is this fair and in better interest of my son than him being adopted and cared for by my lesbian partner?
 
That is just bizarre. How are people who adopt or go through fertility treatment selfish because they want a family? Why isn't everyone who wants a family selfish?

They are I didn't exclude anyone in my post you might notice. If I want to start a family it is because I want one, therefore the action is to benefit me initially.
 
They accept that they physically can't? That is my opinion, whether most think I'm homophobic or not.

This harks back to the 'I want' attitude that most of the population is developing. People all seem to think they are entitled to anything they want.


Does this also apply to the infertile heterosexual couple?
 
They are I didn't exclude anyone in my post you might notice. If I want to start a family it is because I want one, therefore the action is to benefit me initially.

I'd say the want to start a family is at a deeper emotional level than selfishness, but that's a different more philosophical argument. Though a person who may agree with the selfish argument is Dawkins with the whole selfish gene thing. But then that would make the urge to be a parent natural and we've already opened up the nature can of worms.
 
I presume everyone who wants to adopt is doing it for selfish reasons. People want a child, i doubt if many would say that I want to adopt purely because a child will be better off with me than without. Why would a gay couple want to adopt if not for the fact that they want a family for themselves.

They are I didn't exclude anyone in my post you might notice. If I want to start a family it is because I want one, therefore the action is to benefit me initially.

You only talked about adoption. So if myself and wife decide to start a family, we are doing it for selfish reasons and our own satisfaction? So for someone who based their arguments on nature and natural procreation, you think that nature gave us tools to procreate but didn't give us the natural desire to procreate. That's just down to human selfishness?

Anyway, I will agree to disagree! It has run its course
 
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