RTB Rent Register

[Greenbook]

Zero chance have I taken or would I. I'm in the two year rule and don't need to do any proof of market rents madness.

I think you still do. You must still demonstrate that it is market rate? You can't just pick any rent level you want surely?

As far as I know even if you are increasing by the max 2% you must still go through this rigmarole.

Are you actually really worried? What is your current rent, has the tenant left voluntarily and what rent do you want to go to. What are 10 comparable rents? I'm totally lost as to what it is that is bothering you.

Academic interest only at this stage. I've no dog in this fight at all as I will not be resetting rents. I am selling up as my tenants leave. I have been picking short term tenants for the past number of years as I haven't trusted the RTB or the direction the PRS is going in a long time. I am leaving after nearly 30 years. The PRS is toxic for landlords at this point.

 

[LarryScott]

And at the end of all this, the whole exercise is actually pointless. Because market rent is what a tenant will pay.

I think the key issue is that they need to give a date on the rents, and also if they are controlled prices.

A 2000 rent from 2 years is less accurate to a 2000 rent from 1 month ago.

I think also they should allow lower specs to be used as evidence to support a rent.

The price from a 70m2 place should be usable as evidence even if your house is 80m2. This would widen up the number of matches.

Obviously, they don't want people sorting most expensive first

However, find all valid matches (with equal or lower quality) nearby starting from highest would allow many more matches.

 

[Greenbook]

Nobody seems to have focused on sub-section a) which is surprising.

I would agree with all your points. The landlord is more restricted and is taking on more risks. The rent should increase to reflect that. The tenant has more security and, again, should pay a higher rent for that. That is how the market operates. If the risks are higher, your yield should be higher to compensate.

I doubt if the RTB will accept that and I suspect that the Department of Housing and the RTB just don't understand these economic issue at all.

 

[Greenbook]

I think the key issue is that they need to give a date on the rents, and also if they are controlled prices.

There is no reason why they couldn't do that to some extent. The Register could work as follows:

1. If produces all the newly set rents for your area, say within the past year.
2. You use those to help determine your rent.
3. If there are none or only a few newly set rents, it can show you older rents for guidance.

The fact it doesn't limit itself to recent rents must be on purpose. And the only purposes I can think of is tricking unaware landlords into using older or rent controlled rents and to use against landlords in tribunal hearings or in prosecutions.

The RTB can't be so entirely stupid that it doesn't realise its index is producing old and rent controlled rents.

 

[Bronte]

You can't just pick any rent level you want surely?

Yes of course you can. Why can't you?

What you cannot do, which has zero to do with the RTB is set rent above market rent. You'll not get it. Or if you do get it you're a fool as you'll not sustain it. There is a cap on rents, but not the RTB nonsense. Market rent is the cap, which is based on affordability. And also based on supply.

You're not going to get 4K for a one bed in rural Galway, but you will in Dublin city. But you won't get 10K in Dublin, while you might in Manhattan.

I'd been told during the very expensive renovations what rent would be achievable, I didn't actually believe it. Been around too long for that. So went along with it.

Sold property and kept that one, said I'd take a gamble on it, it is a great location, have no mortgage, had the money to renovate, wanted to know exactly how much it is to get trademen, (another proejct in the pipeline), how difficult it was to get the men, how long things would take, to get my hand back into the renovation side, to educate one of my children, Myrid reasons.

Got market rent. Which is the top of the market. Of course I can pick whatever rent I want. The auctioneers told me the achievable rent. Turned away people that wanted it but in my opinion would not last because a) it's highly desirable, but b) didn't think their income would justify it.

I've demonstrated to you and others the market rent in 3 cities. DAFT doesn't lie. Very soon those market rents will be on the RTB registry. I know that property was help back as well. A load of landlords were waiting for the market rent scenario, those now I can see reflected in Daft.

As night follows day landlords will now be very happy to see renters go, and will go to market rent. Taking the opportunity to renovate what was not justified prior to this. Which will improve the rental stock. It's clear from the offerings this is the case. Standards are up, certainly shower rooms are a lot better, can't say sizes are though.

 

[Greenbook]

Or if you do get it you're a fool as you'll not sustain it.

There is no need to be insulting and call me a fool.

I personally would not risk setting a very high rent if I was remaining in the market. The system is designed to keep rents down and the RTB will be policing that. Give this a couple of months and I think RTB will start taking cases against landlords in the hope of reining in rents. The last thing the government can afford is higher and higher rents. They have promised their new rules will do the opposite!

You do not agree with me, that is fine.

I would personally not like to argue the toss of this with the RTB. They are biased, anti-landlord and their job is to implement government policy. There is no fairness for landlords. In theory you can set market rent. The reality I think will be quite different.

That is my view of the matter, you have yours. Please do be bad mannered and insulting and call me a fool.

Perhaps this is a case of shooting the messenger with news that the person does not want to hear.

 

[bipped]

would not risk setting a very high rent

I thought the problem is that the RTB website says the rent can’t be higher than the comparable properties.
Even though the list is historical and not the current asking rates, can the new rent amount be ‘very high’ for the area as long as there’s a comparable one on the list of 10 ? Not sure how properties get to to higher rates though if they need to use the register data.

Does the second line about local market conditions affect that in some way?


From RTB:
“From 1 March 2026, if you are setting or resetting rent to market rent, you must be able to show that:

• The rent is not higher than rents for comparable properties in the area, and
• The rent reflects current local market conditions.

You do this by using the RTB Rent Register and by providing a statement with details of Registered Tenancy numbers for the three comparable properties you used”

 

[Greenbook]

Even though the list is historical and not the current asking rates, can the new rent amount be ‘very high’ for the area as long as there’s a comparable one on the list of 10 ?

Possibly, it can, but perhaps your high comparable rent will be challenged too ie. the RTB will say it's too high and yours is too

The rent reflects current local market conditions.

but there is an 'and' before it, so arguably not higher than the comparables and if local market conditions require a lower rent, your rent complies with that as well.

I keep repeating it. The RTB are doing their upmost to keep rents down.

 

[Bronte]

There is no need to be insulting and call me a fool.

Apologies if you thought that was directed at you. I was refering to the landlord class, sector, as a group. Sorry if that was not clear.

 

[Premos]

Apologies if you thought that was directed at you. I was reffering to the landlord class, sector, as a group. Sorry if that was not clear.

I don't know if you listened to the RTB information sessions, it was made very clear that using the RTB rent register to choose the level of rent was expected. While exceptions were possible, it was also made clear that robust justification would have to be provided.
I don't know what will happen in reality but that's what was said.

 

[Greenbook]

Apologies if you thought that was directed at you.

No problem @Bronte, my misunderstanding.

 

[Greenbook]

Just looking at the RTB form to set rents here

Lots of box ticking and information required, but am I missing something? If I am setting rent to 'market' for a new tenancy after the previous tenants left voluntarily, the only thing I can include to justify my rent is the 3 comparators from the Rent Register per the form? I can't find any place to include Daft or an auctioneer's report. Am I missing something?

 

[polecon]

Zero chance have I taken or would I. I'm in the two year rule and don't need to do any proof of market rents madness.

Could you expand on the 'not needing proof of market rents' part. I thought all property 're-set to market', or new to the market. had to follow the same process in order to arrive at an Orwellian "market rent"?

 

[Karmann]

I advertised a property on Daft after March 1st with the rent stated on the ad and detailed photos, location etc. At 9.00pm on a Friday night. By 2.00pm the next day, when I took the ad down - I had received 147 emails, clearly all willing to pay the advertised rent. I think it would be very difficult to argue my rent is above market rent based on such a response. I think the RTB "market rent" approach is a scare tactic in an attempt to dampen rents which is ultimately unenforceable.

 

[patfert1]

@Karmann Would you be willing to share your rent amount and the 3 comparables you submitted from the RTB rent register, or if not actual figures then percentage differences. We've been talking a lot of theory here but you have a real life example.

Also curious how you chose the rent level you advertised at.

 

[JamieB_]

I advertised a property on Daft after March 1st with the rent stated on the ad and detailed photos, location etc. At 9.00pm on a Friday night. By 2.00pm the next day, when I took the ad down - I had received 147 emails, clearly all willing to pay the advertised rent. I think it would be very difficult to argue my rent is above market rent based on such a response. I think the RTB "market rent" approach is a scare tactic in an attempt to dampen rents which is ultimately unenforceable.

I think that it is indeed unenforceable. The tool doesnt show market rent in any way, so cannot be used to determine market rent. The market , and only the market determines market rent. If you you the tool you are always going to get below market rent, so it is not fit for purpose.

 

[patfert1]

I think that it is indeed unenforceable. The tool doesnt show market rent in any way, so cannot be used to determine market rent. The market , and only the market determines market rent. If you you the tool you are always going to get below market rent, so it is not fit for purpose.

Logically yes, but! Look at the quote from the RTB website in https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/rtb-rent-register.243258/page-25#post-1993829.
It says your justification is made in reference to the RTB rent register. Not Daft, not your emails, etc., though you can submit these as supplementary support and refer to the definitions in the legislation. So anyone in this position could in theory face an objection from/via the RTB. We won't know until it happens.

 

[JamieB_]

Logically yes, but! Look at the quote from the RTB website in https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/rtb-rent-register.243258/page-25#post-1993829.
It says your justification is made in reference to the RTB rent register. Not Daft, not your emails, etc., though you can submit these as supplementary support and refer to the definitions in the legislation. So anyone in this position could in theory face an objection from/via the RTB. We won't know until it happens.

I dont think that matters. It doesnt work at all. It simply cannot provide the market rent. Its impossible to start with and its even more impossible given the data they allow you to work with. If I were still renting I would be quite happy for them to take me to court on this. I would run rings around it by myself, never mind with a solicitor. And I would let them take me to court for any fines they dished out to me on the basis of that tool determining market rent.
They actually should be ashamed of themselves for this one. And ive said it before, but the RTB are headed for a tribunal at some point.

 

[Greenbook]

Ultimately somebody is going to have to take a case on this and it will have to go to the High Court (that is the appeal body from the RTB). Until that happens, the RTB will keep insisting you use their Register.

Who will take the case though? I doubt that an individual landlord will. Would a Fund be willing? It is hard to know. As it is Funds that the government wants to attract, the RTB may accept supplementary evidence and higher rents from them, meaning there is no need for them to challenge the Register.

For us small landlords, this whole reset to market rent could end up being a puff of smoke to a large extent, rather like the story doing the rounds in early 2025 that RPZs were being abolished. Politically the government can't end up in a situation with high and increasing rents.

 

[galway]

Would a Fund be willing?

Can a fund use 3 of it's other rental units when setting rent I haven't followed it up do you know,