RTB Rent Register

"you must send a statement with your rent setting notice that the rent is not above market rent. To prove this, it must include details of rent paid for three tenancies in similar properties from the RTB Rent Register."
That's on the RTB
If I only have access to a list, what else can I do? Can I pick from the 2, 3, 4 lists I pull out for the same property at different times
 
Premos said:
"you must send a statement with your rent setting notice that the rent is not above market rent. To prove this, it must include details of rent paid for three tenancies in similar properties from the RTB Rent Register."
That's on the RTB
If I only have access to a list, what else can I do? Can I pick from the 2, 3, 4 lists I pull out for the same property at different times
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I know what I would do having "regard" to that list. Just send the tenant screenshots from daft of similar properties for rent. Pick the highest one. Also send them the lowest 3 properties from the RTB and say this is from the RTBs biased list which is totally inaccurate. There you go.

They never said the list had to be realistic prices or that you must use them.
 
From the RTB Website.

The RTB Rent Register should be a landlord’s main reference point when setting rent. If a landlord wants to set a rent higher than comparable examples from the Register, they must justify that it represents market rent. To do this, they should provide additional evidence, such as expert valuations.

While a landlord can reference additional sources, they are legally obliged to consider the RTB Rent Register and this should carry significant weight in their decision.

A landlord must keep clear records to support their rent setting decision. They may need to provide the documents as evidence if there is a dispute case or investigation by the RTB in future. Failure to follow rent setting rules is an offence under the Residential Tenancies Act.

These are the important points to my mind:

1. If we want to go higher than the RTB chosen comparables, we have to obtain an expert valuation.

2. The RTB Register carries 'significant weight' ie it is the most important source

3. High rent will be the subject of an RTB investigation and the tenant can dispute it also

4. Too high a rent is a criminal offence with a prison term and/or a fine
 
Greenbook said:
From the RTB Website.

The RTB Rent Register should be a landlord’s main reference point when setting rent. If a landlord wants to set a rent higher than comparable examples from the Register, they must justify that it represents market rent. To do this, they should provide additional evidence, such as expert valuations.

While a landlord can reference additional sources, they are legally obliged to consider the RTB Rent Register and this should carry significant weight in their decision.

A landlord must keep clear records to support their rent setting decision. They may need to provide the documents as evidence if there is a dispute case or investigation by the RTB in future. Failure to follow rent setting rules is an offence under the Residential Tenancies Act.

These are the important points to my mind:

1. If we want to go higher than the RTB chosen comparables, we have to obtain an expert valuation.

2. The RTB Register carries 'significant weight' ie it is the most important source

3. High rent will be the subject of an RTB investigation and the tenant can dispute it also

4. Too high a rent is a criminal offence with a prison term and/or a fine
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I think you are right. Get a valuer to come out and value it and use that value. Also just highlight all of the ones in the RTBs list that are returned that are obviously below market rent so are unusable. It will be clear that 90% (or probably all) of them are controlled rents. So just treat them as such. They are not market rents in that list. Easily fixed by the RTB flagging which ones are actually market rents. But of course they wont do that.
 
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Greenbook said:
While a landlord can reference additional sources, they are legally obliged to consider the RTB Rent Register and this should carry significant weight in their decision.
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If I search 3 times, apparently I get 3 lists (I have just done it twice). Can I pick the highest from each list as my references. They are all from the RTB register
 
The results are very weird. I put in an apartment I have which is pretty much in Cork city centre. Two results are from the same locality. The rest are from Ballincollig (9km away) and a place I'd never heard of Inishkenny which seems to be out Waterfall direction (again 9km away).

Plus one place in the same block as mine which I know for a fact is rented for €2400 per month didn't show up at all. I know the landlord, I saw it advertised on Daft for that rent and he told me he got that rent. Nothing rented for that rent showed up.
 
JamieB_ said:
I think you are right. Get a valuer to come out and value it and use that value. Also just highlight all of the ones in the RTBs list that are returned that are obviously below market rent so are unusable. It will be clear that 90% (or probably all) of them are controlled rents. So just treat them as such. They are not market rents in that list. Easily fixed by the RTB flagging which ones are actually market rents. But of course they wont do that.
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Is a landlord really going to risk an RTB investigation. They have unlimited resources to take the case, landlords don't

Is a landlord going to risk criminal prosecution? A criminal record? A possible prison sentence?

I think challenging their list is in theory only.
 
For my apartment, the median rate is 1126. (2 bedroom apartment North co Dublin), very far from the rent index given by the same RTB both from existing and new tenancies, very far from any average rent given by any organisation currently.
It's similar to the 2014 rent index. Despite applying rent control to the letter, I am actually above the median rent.
 
I did another search. One apartment is returned with a rent of €500! That is the highest match to mine apparently with 97% similarity.

€500 for a two bed clearly is not market rent, yet there it is, top of the list!

This thing must be rigged.
 
Based on what I am seeing, if I had rented my apartment for the first time recently for €2000 or so, which is the Daft.ie rent, I think I'd have to reduce the rent now to be on the safe side. All the results I'm getting are lower for the most part.
 
Premos said:
The RTB data make a joke of the system.
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Based on what I'm seeing and I've done a number of searches now, this is what has happened.

1. I've lost the right to sell with vacant possession seriously devaluing my property (I'm a large landlord)

2. I've been granted the right to rent my property for pretty much what I am already renting it for plus 2% max increase per year.

The rent control side hasn't changed, tenancy tenure has.

Anyone who foolishly bought recently thinking they could rent at market post March is in for a big shock. If you bought something for €300k and were looking for a gross 8% yield, that is a rent of €2k a month. In Cork anyway based on what I'm seeing you could struggle to justify that.
 
How can a landlord or a tenant do a proper comparison if they can’t see the details of other properties, inside or gardens or if there’s parking or a second bathroom. What’s the kitchen like or the flooring etc. Tenants want as much information as possible to compare. If we had the same system as other countries where renters just get the basic shell and fit it out themselves, then the register might work.

Edit: random search (dublin north) and the range was 1325 to 2900. Is it the top three results that should be used for a new tenancy? Why are the 10 needed for rent reviews if there’s a cap of 2%.
 
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I have done a couple of "lists", if I take the average of the 3 highest rentals, I took my apartment C2 and an apartment in the same complex C1 that sold recently. If I took the best 3 rates that came for my apartment, my average was 1800. On the C1 apartment (the only change as I put the same size), 1676.
 
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Greenbook said:
obtain an expert valuation.
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If an EA or letting agency gave a valuation, would they be compelled to use the RTB list?

Surely they would use their professional expertise and assess everything about the property, condition, age, type of house and especially the location, to base their estimated valuation on, not just the size and BER. And they’d also include the most recent rent prices achieved. Pretty much what they do when valuing for a sale. And they are a regulated body so could the RTB discount their valuation? Revenue accept them for probate purposes.

What’s to stop a tenant offering more than the expert valuation. Bidding for rentals anyone?
 
The apartment I am trying to set a new rent for is in a period house that has been sub-divided into 5 self-contained apartments. They are similar enough size, except for the 2 bed which is a lot larger, and with all other parameters like location and BER being the same, so I did wonder if I would get some of those thrown back in the search results but they didn't. Just much lower property prices.

I think we will need to stick to the 2% calculator like usual this time until some of this settles and becomes more clear. The rent is on the lower side to most other places advertised. Following the 2% rule, meant it got left behind as others kept rising. It is not excessively low but had hoped to increase more in line with the lower range of rents for the area.
 
Greenbook said:
Likely they would to avoid criminally liability attaching to them.

The head of the IPAV recently brought up that point.
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An expert with qualifications and/or years of experience in their market will be constrained by a randomly generated list. That’s crazy. What’s the point in having experts in anything so.

What if a tenant wanted to pay more than the comparable properties in the list for whatever reason eg near to job, family etc. How would that work?
 
It also doesn’t seem to work for larger properties or for areas that don’t have a huge number of rentals. If you put in a two-bed apartment in Dublin 2 you get 10 results (different list each time!) but put in a 4 bed house in certain areas in Dublin or in the country and you get ‘invalid API response’.
 
We have 2 identical 2 bed apartments in a nice development in a North Kildare commuter town. Both have been under RPZ since we bought them, but were rented out for the maximum possible at the time as were first time rentals.

Apartment 1 was first rented in 2016 and current rent is €1550.

Apartment 2 was first rented in 2019 and current rent is €1870.

Of the 10 comparable properties that the register offers, the lowest is €1346 and the highest is €1873!

The RTB register is clearly only offering comparison properties that have been under RPZ for many years. From properties I see advertised on both daft and by estate agents, the market rent would be closer to €2200 - €2400.
 
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