Rog

Charming. Grand Slam winning drop goal been forgotten about already then? Not to mention all the other times the guy has rescued Munster and Ireland over the years. Since when did Irish sports fans get worse than the English for knocking their sports stars when they are down
 
Down> He only would've been "down" had he made the tackle...boom boom.

I'm here all week.
 
We won the Grand Slam despite ROG - he was our worst player in the 6ns!! Yes he got the Drop goal but who is to say another Flyhalf wouldn't. He would not have got near the team in the 80's he is waaaaaaaaay behind Campbell, ward and even Dean. He is lucky that there has been such a derth at flyhalf for the last 5 years, his defence is a joke (he actually missed 2 tackles in a row in the leadup to the final try), I wince every time I see him running with ball, he is a good kicking flyhalf that is it.
He has been on 3 lions tours and he will be remembered for getting the Cr*p beaten out of him and Sat performance!!
 
Who is to say another fly half would have made the tackle or even got up off the ground to be in position to attempt the tackle after the injury he received?

And if Stephen Jones had kicked the last minute penalty against us, would everyone be lining up to take cheap pot shots at Paddy Wallace? Is that the way we are going? By all means, criticise players but at least try and do it in a way that shows an understanding of sport that goes beyond the Sun newspaper
 
Sunny said:
Who is to say another fly half would have made the tackle or even got up off the ground to be in position to attempt the tackle after the injury he received?

And if Stephen Jones had kicked the last minute penalty against us, would everyone be lining up to take cheap pot shots at Paddy Wallace? Is that the way we are going? By all means, criticise players but at least try and do it in a way that shows an understanding of sport that goes beyond the Sun newspaper
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I have been playing the game nearly 30 years so I understand the game a bit better then most - Paddy wallace penalty was just as bad!!
His tackling technique is terrible - stringer is smaller then him and is a far superior tackler- he went way too high anyone who has played/played the game knows you tackle a bigger man much lower so you don't get fended off.
 
ROG is the same guy who said this in Public about Geordan Murphy!!

Murphy's "tackle" on Ibanez against France in Croker said it was weak and made him sick to watch and that you can't do that in international rugby.
 
Luckycharm said:
We won the Grand Slam despite ROG - he was our worst player in the 6ns!! Yes he got the Drop goal but who is to say another Flyhalf wouldn't. He would not have got near the team in the 80's he is waaaaaaaaay behind Campbell, ward and even Dean. He is lucky that there has been such a derth at flyhalf for the last 5 years, his defence is a joke (he actually missed 2 tackles in a row in the leadup to the final try), I wince every time I see him running with ball, he is a good kicking flyhalf that is it.
He has been on 3 lions tours and he will be remembered for getting the Cr*p beaten out of him and Sat performance!!
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You say you've played for 30 years. How many mistakes have you made in that time?

Lucky, you say? Please, O Gara has been first choice OH for the top team in European rugby, if he was as bad as you say, he would have been dropped. And the last five years have seen his province ranked no1, how so with a woefull OH?

Sexton, as much as I like him was not even first choice last season, and he only got a run out because Dr. Phil took an injury. I hope he can fill O Garas big boots and even be half as successfull as him. At nearly 24 he would want to be showing his class. At that age O Gara was a capped full international and getting ready for his 1st (of three) Lions tours.

For a man that says he knows rugby better than most..better than who exactly, every manger that has ever picked O Gara for a squad, be it for Province, Country and Lions duty. (all multiple times under varouis different coaching set ups)


Don't get me wrong, I not exactly delighted with his decision making but the guy made a mistake, you know whats it's like to face down 20 stone of SA muscle hitting you at full belt, than again you probably don't. After that missed tackle there was a long ways to go to get over the try line.

Taking the man in the air is the worse of the two by far, and he knows it, I certainly won't be hanging him out to dry. He has given Irish rugby so much and he deserves our support now...esp rugby people like yourself.

Quite simple, his record breaking feats and stats, speak for themselves.
 
ogara has been excellent and rubbish in equal measures for Ireland and munster in the past.

for all the lads who just remember munster with toyota on their jerseys....lets not forget the 2000 final against northampton saints when munster lost by one point (how many kicks did rog miss that day??)

but he is all time record points scorer in both the heino and the 6nations. that is an amazing achievement. his try against the boks in landsdowne was excellent. his tries in the 6n have been excellent also and he has gelled well with the Leinster backline for Ireland. his cross field kick for shaggy against england was excellent and required massive skill.

but ogara left 17points on the pitch against england in the 6nations.
but yet got a crucial score. (massive thanks to Brian O driscoll with a drop goal and a try)

he was very poor in the world cup but then so was most of the team and indeed the management so that wasnt all his fault.
his drop goal against wales was awesome, as was johny sextons drop goal from almost the half way line in the european cup final.

mr o gara did his best turnstyle impression in the semi final with Leinster, the first thing dr.phil did was bounce rog (check it out on youtube)

the problem most people have with rog is his mouth, he did verbally attack murphy for his missed tackle in croke park against france. he has called other people chokers when his past would suggest he should keep his mouth shut on that one.
his physicallity has always been a problem, how often does wally cover the 10 channel for munster and Ireland? especially at the set piece. sure isnt that one of the reasons why tomas o leary is picked at SH (for his physicality)

rog is the best we have at OH for now, please god sexton, keatley and humphreys come on for the future.
 
DavyJones said:
You say you've played for 30 years. How many mistakes have you made in that time?

Lucky, you say? Please, O Gara has been first choice OH for the top team in European rugby, if he was as bad as you say, he would have been dropped. And the last five years have seen his province ranked no1, how so with a woefull OH?

Sexton, as much as I like him was not even first choice last season, and he only got a run out because Dr. Phil took an injury. I hope he can fill O Garas big boots and even be half as successfull as him. At nearly 24 he would want to be showing his class. At that age O Gara was a capped full international and getting ready for his 1st (of three) Lions tours.

For a man that says he knows rugby better than most..better than who exactly, every manger that has ever picked O Gara for a squad, be it for Province, Country and Lions duty. (all multiple times under varouis different coaching set ups)


Don't get me wrong, I not exactly delighted with his decision making but the guy made a mistake, you know whats it's like to face down 20 stone of SA muscle hitting you at full belt, than again you probably don't. After that missed tackle there was a long ways to go to get over the try line.

Taking the man in the air is the worse of the two by far, and he knows it, I certainly won't be hanging him out to dry. He has given Irish rugby so much and he deserves our support now...esp rugby people like yourself.

Quite simple, his record breaking feats and stats, speak for themselves.
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Davyjones who exactly has ROG been competing with at Munster for the 10 jersey for the last years? Jeremy Manning, An Old Paul Burke who else tell me about the wonderful number 10's he has been keeping out of the jersey. Warwick this year has been his only real competition and at times has looked a far better 10 - thankfully he got a position at fullback in the team. Also tell me whose has been competing for the 10 jersey on the National team for the last 5 years an very old humps - who in his prime was a better player just unfortunate to be playing on poor teams- his defence was just as woeful but far more of a threat ball in hand, Then paddy wallace who has barely played any games at 10 for Ulster in the last 5 years so Yes a complete Derth of talent at 10!

Munster have had the best pack in Europe for the last 10 years and until last year - ROG kicked them to the corners, built scores alot of tries coming from Mauls. He has always struggled when not getting armchair ride from the Pack.

Jacque Fourie is 20 stone now you really are having a laugh :D Are you saying it harder to tackle him then Lomu was in his prime when Stringer managed it?
You mentioned Lions tours he has 3 lions tours how many Lions tests has started - he has generally been a dirt tracker!!
Sexton is maturing has outplayed ROG nearly every time they played each other do you remember leinster win away last year when Sexton was 10. Getting into the Leinster backline in recent years a bit like getting into the Munster pack you really have to really talented as there is seasoned internationals ahead of you.
Can you name me one decent International back from 11-15 bar Earls (unproven) that Munster have produced in the last 15 years?
 
Thats the thing, if he was as bad as you say he was, Munster, being the top club in Europe would have brought someone in. How do you explain his record? surely you can't give all the credit to the forwards.

Tell me what OH hasn't struggled when their pack haven't been great? Not too many, if any.

I remember a match in Thomond where Sexton wasn't too great, (the one he kicked Mafi in the face). I have also seen him have stinkers in the CL. I can't judge his couple of HC apperances but he is looking alright. He looked in good form for the Ireland A side recently. But that really is beside the point, of course we need a replacement, just like we need replacement Props,centres, etc.

What does the 11-15 to do with anything? This shouldn't be a tit for tat provincial BS debate that has become increasingly more common since rugby has become main stream.

O Gara has been a great servant to Irish rugby and deserves more respect than a lot of people allow him. All the greats have made mistakes, even the blue one's.

When O Gara does retire, irish rugby will be the less for it.
 
DavyJones said:
O Gara has been a great servant to Irish rugby and deserves more respect than a lot of people allow him. All the greats have made mistakes, even the blue one's.
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Well said!

We always were a nation of begrudgers and it looks like we always will be.

Homer
 
Homer said:
Well said!

We always were a nation of begrudgers and it looks like we always will be.

Homer
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It is not begrudgery to point out that a person has a big mouth, lacks humility and can have his off days. That, I hope, should not take away from his talent and his contribution to province and country. At this stage he is past his best so his career should not be seen in the context of how he is playing now. His weakness in defence has always been a problem but his kicking ability had usually outweighed it. That has not been the case recently.
 
Purple said:
It is not begrudgery to point out that a person has a big mouth, lacks humility and can have his off days. That, I hope, should not take away from his talent and his contribution to province and country. At this stage he is past his best so his career should not be seen in the context of how he is playing now. His weakness in defence has always been a problem but his kicking ability had usually outweighed it. That has not been the case recently.
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I'm sure that you have a balanced view on O'Gara but it is clearly seen in other posts that begrudgery is alive an well. The man is a record scorer in HC but some would have that down to playing with a great pack and not having decent competition for his place!
Fair enough there will be Leinster/Munster bias but he is Irish and an Irish Lion, we should be supporting the man and not slamming him.
 
I'd like to bring perspective to this. The game on Saturday was physically draining. It bordered on savagery. OGara picked himself up from the ground to try and make the tackle in the corner. He had a black eye and bandaging on his head. He missed the tackle. That was a mistake. Tackling was always his weak point and every team has identified that over the years. We knew this before the game and so did he.But I cannot blame him for that and the silly mistake that happened at the end.

If we go down that route we should blame Monye for not knowing which hand to carry the ball in during the first test. That had nothing to do with tiredness. It showed lack of technique. We could blame Jones for not kicking the ball in to the 22 at the end of the first test. His kick was woeful.

All these things happen in the intensity of the game. Nobody is pointing the finger at Monye for not knowing what a 12 year old would do. Why slaughter O'Gara??
 
VOR said:
I'd like to bring perspective to this. The game on Saturday was physically draining. It bordered on savagery. OGara picked himself up from the ground to try and make the tackle in the corner. He had a black eye and bandaging on his head. He missed the tackle. That was a mistake. Tackling was always his weak point and every team has identified that over the years. We knew this before the game and so did he.But I cannot blame him for that and the silly mistake that happened at the end.

If we go down that route we should blame Monye for not knowing which hand to carry the ball in during the first test. That had nothing to do with tiredness. It showed lack of technique. We could blame Jones for not kicking the ball in to the 22 at the end of the first test. His kick was woeful.

All these things happen in the intensity of the game. Nobody is pointing the finger at Monye for not knowing what a 12 year old would do. Why slaughter O'Gara??
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All fair points. It is the nature of things that the last man to screw up gets most of the criticism. Moyne is also deserving of a good deal of flak.
 
In regards to the Lions, I actually think he was right in his original thought when he kicked the ball, follow up the kick,get a SA player to get hold of it, tackle him and then try and get them pinged for holding on. If he had got the kick right, probably another 3-5 meters further on, that might have happened and the Lions would have got a kick at goal from 40 meters to win the match

O'Gara has been a great servant to Munster and Ireland, however the reality is that this season he has been inconsistant and he looks to me like a player lacking in confidence. Criticising him for this mistake is not begrudgery or forgetting all he has done on other days, it's simply dealing with the facts. Professional sport is ruthless, you're only as good as your last game
 
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