Revenue clampdown on investor stamp duty

J

JPF

Guest
Hi
I am in a situation similar to the one dirtyfingers outlines above. I work in Dublin and return home to Roscommon every weekend. I am thinking of buying a house in my home town ( a new 4 bed semi for 235K) as I see no value in Dublin, 400k+ for a pokey 2 bed town house. I like this particular development and would like to move back from Dublin within the next year or 2.

If I was to the buy the house and rent out 2 or 3 bedrooms keeping one for myself always and staying in the house most weekends would it be classed as my PPR. I would ensure rent was below €7620
I currently rent a shared room in Dublin and stay there only when necessary, even now I would not consider my rented Dublin accommodation as my PPR.
Where would I stand in the eyes of the Revenue as regards "Owner Occupier"??

Any advice ideas would be appreciated.
 

Henny Penny

Frequent Poster
Messages
559
Tax dodgers annoy me ... I live in an area which is full of section 23 type properties. I have no problem with investors buying section 23 properties but it annoys me when people buy them and claim to live in them thereby getting the FTB grant and also the tax relief, and then subsequently rent them out to tenants. They obviously pay no tax on the rental income, as doing so would be admitting that they were renting the property and not living in it themselves.

I hope the revenue comes down hard on these people who are clearly abusing the system ... and pushing other legitamate buyers looking for homes out of the market. The revenue should have a swat team for Longford/Roscommon/Leitrim and Cavan!
 
J

JPF

Guest
Henny Penny I'm not sure if you are directing that post to my query but just to clarify in any case;

I do not want to evade tax. I wouldn't be able to sleep if i thought the Revenue could come knocking on my door in a few years time.

I want to know if I DO live there at weekends is it my PPR?
 

Henny Penny

Frequent Poster
Messages
559
I'm sorry JPF my post was not a dig at you ... just unscrupulous tax evaders ... at least you want to live in your house!
 

asdfg

Frequent Poster
Messages
1,579
I want to know if I DO live there at weekends is it my PPR
Afaia your PPR is the place where you normally reside. If you rented a house during the week but moved to another house at the weekends then the house you stayed in during the week would be considered your PPR.
 

ubiquitous

Frequent Poster
Messages
3,782
asdfg said:
Afaia your PPR is the place where you normally reside. If you rented a house during the week but moved to another house at the weekends then the house you stayed in during the week would be considered your PPR.
I wouldn't be so sure that this rule-of-thumb would necessarily apply in all cases. I would have thought that the facts of each particular case should be judged on its merits and a conclusion made on that basis.
 

Qawra

Registered User
Messages
31
How many people on this thread are first time buyers? The reason that I ask is that it sounds like their is a little gripe/resentment in the replies. Eeveryone is critiscising the landlady here rather than the government. Nobody has really said that the governemtn is wrong with stamp duty conditions. If they want people to afford houses and not have to provide council housing etc then should they not be revamping the tax system to deal with high prices and is that not the real question here
 

vicar

Registered User
Messages
19
What happens if you have two houses and live in them both!!

A friend of mine has a house in cork which he stays in 1 week out of every two, he also has a house in Dublin which he stays in the other week, as he does business in Cork and dublin only it made sense for him to buya place down there, he didnt pay stamp on the second apartment in Cork as he maintains he is living in it and he actually doesnt rent it out when hes not there!!
Is he breaking the law???
 

vicar

Registered User
Messages
19
Also what happens if you buy a house that isnt ready for say six months and then sell it as soon as its ready and turn a quick few bob profit? Are you still liable to pay stamp duty ? I know a guy who did this also , (I know I seemto have a few dodgy mates!!!)
 

Howitzer

Frequent Poster
Messages
1,459
vicar said:
What happens if you have two houses and live in them both!!

A friend of mine has a house in cork which he stays in 1 week out of every two, he also has a house in Dublin which he stays in the other week, as he does business in Cork and dublin only it made sense for him to buya place down there, he didnt pay stamp on the second apartment in Cork as he maintains he is living in it and he actually doesnt rent it out when hes not there!!
Is he breaking the law???
vicar said:
Also what happens if you buy a house that isnt ready for say six months and then sell it as soon as its ready and turn a quick few bob profit? Are you still liable to pay stamp duty ? I know a guy who did this also , (I know I seemto have a few dodgy mates!!!)
From the slim details you've provided, there are loopholes, in both cases your "friends" should have paid stamp duty.

1. You can only have 1 PPR.

2. Assuming he actually buys the place, and not just the contract for sale, then stamp is liable.
 

asdfg

Frequent Poster
Messages
1,579
Also what happens if you buy a house that isnt ready for say six months and then sell it as soon as its ready and turn a quick few bob profit?
If your friend does not move into the house and establish the property as his PPR then he will be liable to CGT on the increase in value of the property @ 20% less expenses.
 
A

Ann1977

Guest
*If the first-time buyer rents the house within five years Revenue will claim back or 'clawback' the difference between the higher stamp duty rates and the duty actually paid. The only exception to this is the 'Rent a Room' scheme where part of the house is rented out. If the house is sold within five years there is no clawback."

A girl I know (ftb) bought a house last year with the intention of it being her PPR but for personal reasons she rented it out a couple of months after buying it. She rented it to a social welfare tenant so obviously revenue will be aware sooner or later that she has rented the property. However during a conversation last night she mentioned that she did not register with the PRTB, has not paid clawback or tax on the rental and is unaware of CGT implications.

After reading this thread I am a little confused about the clawback issue especially the line saying if the house is sold within 5 years there is no clawback - as in if she sells the house now does that mean she will not have to pay clawback even though the house was rented for the past year. Let me mention she will not try to evade tax but she will sell the house if it means she will not have to pay the clawback.

Other than that she is going to set up a meeting with the revenue asap - can anyone give me an idea of what revenue are likely to say to her?

Thanx,
Ann.
 

ClubMan

Frequent Poster
Messages
43,858
Interesting figures here on the penalties and interest that seem to apply to late payments of the SD clawback.
 
L

ligind

Guest
Can someone clarify whether an owner occupier must be resident for 2 or 5 years without having to pay stamp duty clawback, where stamp duty not paid orignially, if changing to investor (renting out property).
thanks in advance
 
Top