Revenue 'audit' letter for bank savings

Status
Not open for further replies.
Your friend's son is not a law abiding citizen. He is a tax evader and he is stealing from all of us. I hope that Revenue throw the book at him.

+1

It never ceases to amaze me, the Irish attitude towards the tax system. Whether or not you personally agree with the way the taxes are levied (the same as you may not agree with the drink driving limit, or any other piece of legislation you could care to mention), you should still abide by the law. The simple fact is that every person who evades tax is affecting the overall amount of tax receipts. The consequence of which is that the tax rate paid by everyone ends up being slightly higher than it would need to be.

Greta is the typical example of the shoulder shrugging attitude, "Ah sure, so what if he does a few nixers and pockets the cash. more power to him..." etc etc.
The so what is that the size of the black economy in Ireland is alarming, have a look at this; http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/the-black-economy--is-back-in-business-1917172.html
So, the €6bn that the Government is trying to find in the budget is in the Black Economy...

So Greta, if/when you're gnashing your teeth at the prospect of whatever hardship the forthcoming budget imposes on you, please remember that all of that money would already be in the coffers if no-one was willing to engage in the black market. Maybe then you won't be smiling about a "cute whore" who manages to feather his nest and dodge a few bob in tax.
 
Does it make you feel better for making such a sweeping statement when you know nothing much about the person concerned.:rolleyes:


Some people seem to get pleasure from of insulting others, and it's ever so easy to do that over the internet...
 
Greta is the typical example of the shoulder shrugging attitude, "Ah sure, so what if he does a few nixers and pockets the cash. more power to him..." etc etc.
The so what is that the size of the black economy in Ireland is alarming, have a look at this; http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/the-black-economy--is-back-in-business-1917172.html
So, the €6bn that the Government is trying to find in the budget is in the Black Economy...

So Greta, if/when you're gnashing your teeth at the prospect of whatever hardship the forthcoming budget imposes on you, please remember that all of that money would already be in the coffers if no-one was willing to engage in the black market. Maybe then you won't be smiling about a "cute whore" who manages to feather his nest and dodge a few bob in tax.

I would appreciate it if you refrain from personal attacks on me. As far as I understand, this is a forum for financial advice, not a place to take out at other people your personal frustrations with whatever may be wrong with Ireland or the world.

The OP asked a question - did their friend's son have anything to worry about re Revenue audit letter. I merely answered their question, saying that probably he doesn't. At no time did I express an admiration for him or any tax evader. Also OP did not state that he ever evaded any tax. I think it is natural for anybody, however tax-abiding, to be worried at getting an audit letter from the Revenue.

However, if this guy did evade some tax, in the circumstances it is extremely unlikely that the Revenue will be able to prove it, and no amount of "teeth-gnashing" will change that.
 
However, if this guy did evade some tax, in the circumstances it is extremely unlikely that the Revenue will be able to prove it, and no amount of "teeth-gnashing" will change that.

As far as I know, it works the other way round. He has to be able to prove that his income is legitimate.
 
As far as I know, it works the other way round. He has to be able to prove that his income is legitimate.

I do understand that. I said in the circumstances - when almost all income is legitimate PAYE income and is easy to prove and is well above the amount of savings. And the taxpayer lives virtually for free in his parent's house, so could really save all his PAYE income, while his savings are actually less than that. Any odd-job income (even if undeclared) is, according to OP, fairly small. So, unless this guy was really stupid lodging it in his bank account, there is really no trace of it left now. If it was indeed that low, it was probably used as beer/pocket money, more money being withdrawn from PAYE income as and when needed.

Of course, if circumstances were different and undeclared income was much larger and/or was used to pay essential living expenses or for traceable things like cars etc, then the situation would be different and the Revenue could indeed pursue the taxpayer effectively, as he would be unable to prove where his savings came from.
 
Just to reiterate a point that I made earlier, most casual work or 'odd job' situations involve an obligation on the part of the employer to operate PAYE. The responsibility for this obligation lies with the employer, not the employee.

If no tax has been paid on a part of this person's earnings, it is likely that others, and not the worker in question, are liable for any tax shortfall.
 
I live in a fairly rural area and it is common knowledge that they are loads of people working in the black market doing a day here and there while on the dole, the attitude being sure how on earth can a family manage on the dole these days, they need a day or two along with it. It is something that is ingrained into the Irish psyche and you daren't complain or you would be breaking the social codes.
 
I live in a fairly rural area and it is common knowledge that they are loads of people working in the black market doing a day here and there while on the dole, the attitude being sure how on earth can a family manage on the dole these days, they need a day or two along with it. It is something that is ingrained into the Irish psyche and you daren't complain or you would be breaking the social codes.

Dunno about the black market bit, but it is quite legitimate and lawful for Jobseekers recipients to work on occasional days, provided that they notify Social Welfare accordingly and sign off for the days concerned. This also applies in urban areas.

ps Come to think of it, if you're notifying Social Welfare that you're working on next Tuesday and the following Thursday, its going to be pretty hard to deny this to Revenue, so any Jobseekers recipient who is tax dodging is guilty of 'Darwin Awards'-type stupidity.
 
Just to reiterate a point that I made earlier, most casual work or 'odd job' situations involve an obligation on the part of the employer to operate PAYE. The responsibility for this obligation lies with the employer, not the employee.

If no tax has been paid on a part of this person's earnings, it is likely that others, and not the worker in question, are liable for any tax shortfall.

In the case where someone has an accumulation of cash, and cannot adequately explain the source of it, I'd say Revenue would be inclined to tax them under Case I on it. He would have to prove that it was properly chargeable under Schedule E in order to avoid the tax being levied against him.
If it was my case I wouldn't be very inclined to go looking for €50/€100 of unpaid PAYE/PRSI from each of a few dozen people. (Of course if the guy was able to point the finger at a particular employer or two from whom he derived a meaningful amount of income then I definitely agree with you).
 
I would appreciate it if you refrain from personal attacks on me. As far as I understand, this is a forum for financial advice, not a place to take out at other people your personal frustrations with whatever may be wrong with Ireland or the world.

The OP asked a question - did their friend's son have anything to worry about re Revenue audit letter. I merely answered their question, saying that probably he doesn't. At no time did I express an admiration for him or any tax evader. Also OP did not state that he ever evaded any tax. I think it is natural for anybody, however tax-abiding, to be worried at getting an audit letter from the Revenue.

However, if this guy did evade some tax, in the circumstances it is extremely unlikely that the Revenue will be able to prove it, and no amount of "teeth-gnashing" will change that.

Sorry Greta, my moral high horse and I went a bit off-topic there, didn't mean to come across as launching a personal attack. :eek:

But OP did state that he evaded tax, or suggested it at least. The only way you can interpret the aggregate of her posts is that the odd job money was never declared, therefore by definition he has evaded tax - if it had been declared she wouldn't be asking questions like, "what if he says the money was gifts from family" (can't find that post quickly but I'm sure she asked it!)

But as for it being "extremely unlikely" that he'll get caught out, you cannot say that without knowing more of the circumstances - it will all depend on the pattern of the buildup of money. If he's been silly then it could be extremely likely he'll have a problem. Given that he has probably always operated without regard to the taxman (given that he's a PAYE worker), then he may not have covered his tracks.
 
Mandelbrot, OP did ask "what if he says the money was gifts from family" but from their other posts it appears to me that they were just asking a "what if?" question but don't really know anything much about this guy's situation, who is not themselves and not even their friend but their friend's son:) So it is impossible for us here to be sure he ever evaded any tax. The only thing that we know from OP is that he panicked when he got an audit letter from the Revenue - but then I would too, well, if not panic but I would feel quite stressed about it as it would mean a lot of my time wasted on dealing with the Revenue, and then you never know what if the Revenue get you on something you were not even aware of... And I do actually know a good deal about taxes, so I can quite imagine the panic of those who don't on receiving an audit letter from the Revenue:)

I actually know people who didn't do anything wrong, paying their taxes to the penny and only claiming for what they were entitled to, but the Revenue wasted a lot of their time, demanding and querying... In the end, the Revenue didn't prove anything (as there was nothing to prove:)), but the time was wasted considerably. So a Revenue audit is something I personally dread, even though I do all I can to keep all my taxes up to date:)

I agree that if this guy was not paying taxes that he should have and being stupid about it (e.g. lodging it in his bank account), he may have problems. Though not very serious ones as the amounts concerned are relatively small and he has ample means to pay the tax, even with interest and penalties.

My point was that, because the amount of his odd-job income was so small, he probably just used it as beer money, in which case his bank statements will tally with his PAYE income and the Revenue won't be able to prove anything.
 
Thank you for feedback- I hardly expect that 55k accumulated over 5 years equates- from predominantly his paye job amounts to some big 'fraud' with Revenue! Would appear that Revenue have little or nothing to keep themselves occupied these days... so hence chasing cents! Regardless of the outcome for this young man, I would envisage that max payable with levies/ penalties if anything will amount to less that 1 or 2k for the 5 years!

This is a very sweeping statement. How can you be certain that PAYE was not applied to the 'odd jobs' highlighted earlier?

Employers are obliged to operate PAYE on all employments, including part-time or casual employments.

Does it make you feel better for making such a sweeping statement when you know nothing much about the person concerned.:rolleyes:

If you'd both bothered to read the OP's posts in detail, you'd realise that this is a clear cut case of systematic tax evasion. But no, it's easier to post smiley faces and miss the entire point of a thread...
 
Okay then, I apologise for having a different opinion to you.

No need to apologise - I'm not attacking you but I am attacking your opinion. Based on the information provided to us by the OP, this guy does have a problem and to suggest otherwise is "innocent abroad" stuff.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top