So, if one is in arrears of 6 months on the mortgage due to no cashflow in a self employed situation, but is now in a position to restart payments, full payments, but the bank has just sent out the forms for the MARP process, where would anyone suggest we go from here? Could we possibley start to pay it in full again with an agreement to recapitalise the arrears, or does starting the marp process mean we are in a different system. Does MARP mean we are heading down an unstoppable route or what does it mean? Any advise? Im not sure where we go from here, we dont want to make the wrong choice.
Restart paying the mortgage, what now?
- Thread starter topaz2
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Yes, we are in discussion with the bank, we have paid them a few monthly payments over the last 8 or 9 months, so have arrears of 6 months technically. They have said we need to fill in the MARP forms before they can capitalise anything, but we will definately repay our monthly payment from now on, whether or which. Im not interested in NOT making a payment while I have the wherewithall to do so, this is my childrens home, Im not interested in jousting with the bank. My main reason for paying my mortgage is for the children, my secondary reason is to keep the bank happy. I suppose my real query is, if we are back on track in a few months, and we manage to deal with the arrears, through capitalisation or other means (have no idea what that could be), are we always going to be in the sytem, or do we eventually go back to being a faceless morgage number, which is wwhat I would like to be.
Hi Topaz2
I would expect that you would need to fill in the standard financial statement for them to look at capitalisation. For any restructure, they need to be able to evidence that you can maintain payments going forward, and that capitalisation is in your best interests and not likely to lead to problems down the line.
I would expect that you would need to fill in the standard financial statement for them to look at capitalisation. For any restructure, they need to be able to evidence that you can maintain payments going forward, and that capitalisation is in your best interests and not likely to lead to problems down the line.
Hi topaz2,
We would initially have had about 6 months arrears on our mortgage ac, we tried varying the date of our monthly payment but would miss one here and there due to other direct debits ie health insurance, car payment or something else being presented early or just by the mortgage date falling at the wrong time. All our banking was done through the one account Ptsb and we always seemed to run out of day to day money,also we seemed to be losing about 80.00 per month in bank charges ie returned direct debits etc, I am paid weekly by cheque.we discussed different ways of coping while having a household cash flow and our solution was simply to take control of our own money rather than let the bank. Our solution was we opened an account for my wife in a different bank and I opened another ac in a third bank, I lodge the paycheque into my ac which is same bank as my employer so it clears instantly, I moved all non Ptsb direct debits onto this ac, I lodge a cash amount into my wife's ac every week . We lodge a cheque directly into the mortgage ac every week which is slightly more than quarter of the monthly payment which resulted in making 5 payments some months and gradually the arrears reduce and all the other payments are on time also, to keep track of all the payments due I have a reminder set on the phone so I can check through them each Friday for the following week, now all payments are made,all bills are up to date and there is always a few euro available, hope it helps but just remember yourself and your wife control your destiny, not the bank. We forgot that ourselves for quite a while but thankfully we are getting back, regards mark1
We would initially have had about 6 months arrears on our mortgage ac, we tried varying the date of our monthly payment but would miss one here and there due to other direct debits ie health insurance, car payment or something else being presented early or just by the mortgage date falling at the wrong time. All our banking was done through the one account Ptsb and we always seemed to run out of day to day money,also we seemed to be losing about 80.00 per month in bank charges ie returned direct debits etc, I am paid weekly by cheque.we discussed different ways of coping while having a household cash flow and our solution was simply to take control of our own money rather than let the bank. Our solution was we opened an account for my wife in a different bank and I opened another ac in a third bank, I lodge the paycheque into my ac which is same bank as my employer so it clears instantly, I moved all non Ptsb direct debits onto this ac, I lodge a cash amount into my wife's ac every week . We lodge a cheque directly into the mortgage ac every week which is slightly more than quarter of the monthly payment which resulted in making 5 payments some months and gradually the arrears reduce and all the other payments are on time also, to keep track of all the payments due I have a reminder set on the phone so I can check through them each Friday for the following week, now all payments are made,all bills are up to date and there is always a few euro available, hope it helps but just remember yourself and your wife control your destiny, not the bank. We forgot that ourselves for quite a while but thankfully we are getting back, regards mark1
Hi Mark1, very interested in what you seem to have done here. I am coming to end of 6mth interest only but because of other debts I am at a loss how I will pay household charge, upcoming tv licence & house insurance without missing a future payment. It got me thinking that if I used income to clear car loan whilst making "token" mortgage payment I will fall into arrears which I could address by overpaying later in year.
My question is if you are engaging but the banks aren't interested what exactly happens if you get into 3-6mths of arrears? I'm just sick of dancing to their tune & not having a life on a "manageable" long term debt (i.e., I'm having difficulties with current repayments because my wage was cut below my outgoings but over life terms its not undoable).
My question is if you are engaging but the banks aren't interested what exactly happens if you get into 3-6mths of arrears? I'm just sick of dancing to their tune & not having a life on a "manageable" long term debt (i.e., I'm having difficulties with current repayments because my wage was cut below my outgoings but over life terms its not undoable).
http://www.keepingyourhome.ie/mortgage_debt.html -I find this site very good.
Two important points -
It (MARP) requires lenders to handle all such cases sympathetically and positively, with the objective at all times of helping people to meet their mortgage obligations...
Repossession proceedings
The lender must not apply to the courts to commence legal action for repossession of your property until every reasonable effort has been made to agree an alternative arrangement. If you are cooperating with the lender, they must wait at least 12 months from the date your arrears were classified as a MARP case (31 days after the first missed repayment) before applying to the courts.
When a lender is calculating the 12-month period, it must exclude any period during which you are complying with the terms of an alternative repayment arrangement, appealing to the Appeals Board or complaining to the Financial Services Ombudsman under the Code. It must also exclude the period during which you can consider making an appeal.
MARP is not something to worry about it's only the term given to a payment plan... and all the bits that come with it.
Topaz2 - fill in the forms and send them to the bank - you need to do this to be considered cooperating. Give them a week and then follow up with them. They should be happy to see you paying again and should work with you to make a payment plan. Ask for everything in writing and make no decisions on the phone, always take time to think what works for you.
Daisy2 - If you are talking to the bank and they are not interested.... complain. in what way are they not interested ? If MARP applies to your mortgage they can do very little in terms of starting legal proceedings. Pay what you can afford - send everything in writing and ask for everything to be confirmed in writing.
Two important points -
It (MARP) requires lenders to handle all such cases sympathetically and positively, with the objective at all times of helping people to meet their mortgage obligations...
Repossession proceedings
The lender must not apply to the courts to commence legal action for repossession of your property until every reasonable effort has been made to agree an alternative arrangement. If you are cooperating with the lender, they must wait at least 12 months from the date your arrears were classified as a MARP case (31 days after the first missed repayment) before applying to the courts.
When a lender is calculating the 12-month period, it must exclude any period during which you are complying with the terms of an alternative repayment arrangement, appealing to the Appeals Board or complaining to the Financial Services Ombudsman under the Code. It must also exclude the period during which you can consider making an appeal.
MARP is not something to worry about it's only the term given to a payment plan... and all the bits that come with it.
Topaz2 - fill in the forms and send them to the bank - you need to do this to be considered cooperating. Give them a week and then follow up with them. They should be happy to see you paying again and should work with you to make a payment plan. Ask for everything in writing and make no decisions on the phone, always take time to think what works for you.
Daisy2 - If you are talking to the bank and they are not interested.... complain. in what way are they not interested ? If MARP applies to your mortgage they can do very little in terms of starting legal proceedings. Pay what you can afford - send everything in writing and ask for everything to be confirmed in writing.
Isscritto - they don't want to know because I'm in full time employment & never missed a payment. All my incomings are going straight off loans & whats left is barely leaving enough for regular bills, petrol & my diet now regularily consists of koka noodles or beans on toast! I'm not a damn student! I had 3 "nights out" total in 2010 which were friends wedding, family birthday & my Promotion! No holiday no "luxuries, nothing, bank, credit union & credit card company don't care so long as payments are made but I'm sick of not "living"!
I'm the one looking for and presenting solutions, I was proactive about looking for advice (outside as well as my provider) but they drag their heels, letters go missing, emails are ignored but exactly what grounds do I have of complaining to financial omsbudsman? They (eventually & after much aggro on my part) agreed to 6mth interest only, its not a solution just putting things off waiting for government to change goal posts.
I'm the one looking for and presenting solutions, I was proactive about looking for advice (outside as well as my provider) but they drag their heels, letters go missing, emails are ignored but exactly what grounds do I have of complaining to financial omsbudsman? They (eventually & after much aggro on my part) agreed to 6mth interest only, its not a solution just putting things off waiting for government to change goal posts.
Typical... eh !!! Banks won't help as long as they are getting money.
MARP applies to you - as you are considered pre-arrears
This Code applies to the mortgage loan of a borrower which is secured by their primary residence.
In addition, lenders must apply the protections of the Code to borrowers in the following circumstances:
(i) Borrowers in arrears and in pre-arrears; and
(ii) In the case of joint borrowers, who notify the lender in writing that they have separated or divorced, the lender should treat each borrower as a single borrower under this Code.
So if the bank are not dealing with you under MARP and/or are not dealing fairly you have the right to appeal.
My suggestions
Complete another standard financial statement - budget for food, some money for social and a "rainy day" fund. ( this is what I did - It's still hard to pay mortgage but at least I can eat and have a night out or in every now and then)
Send it to bank - keep a copy for yourself
Call them a week later - set up payment plan - know what you can afford - get letter to confirm.
If this does not happen - appeal to the banks appeal board and copy the ombudsman. You will be surprised what cc'ing the ombudsman can do !!!
Best of luck.
MARP applies to you - as you are considered pre-arrears
This Code applies to the mortgage loan of a borrower which is secured by their primary residence.
In addition, lenders must apply the protections of the Code to borrowers in the following circumstances:
(i) Borrowers in arrears and in pre-arrears; and
(ii) In the case of joint borrowers, who notify the lender in writing that they have separated or divorced, the lender should treat each borrower as a single borrower under this Code.
So if the bank are not dealing with you under MARP and/or are not dealing fairly you have the right to appeal.
My suggestions
Complete another standard financial statement - budget for food, some money for social and a "rainy day" fund. ( this is what I did - It's still hard to pay mortgage but at least I can eat and have a night out or in every now and then)
Send it to bank - keep a copy for yourself
Call them a week later - set up payment plan - know what you can afford - get letter to confirm.
If this does not happen - appeal to the banks appeal board and copy the ombudsman. You will be surprised what cc'ing the ombudsman can do !!!
Best of luck.
Thanks Iscritto, thats what I did last year along with numerous personal appearances! I just can't decide if it apathy or anger that I'm starting to feel at thought of going through it not just when this 6mths is up but future MARP deals y'know? Its not helping me just my creditors. I filled out both their SFS but my own spreadsheets last year & was greeted at my meeting (3rd request) with a child whose shirt was stained, half pulled out've his trousers, no tie & a chewed up pen & spiral notebook - I'd have sacked him on the spot nevermind try negogiating.
I don't care about my credit rating either as I will never again make mistake of thinking my wage was "safe" to manage future payments on!
I don't care about my credit rating either as I will never again make mistake of thinking my wage was "safe" to manage future payments on!
A lot of us made the "safe" mistake in regard to wages.
You seems have made all the right moves but really sad to see bank won't help.
There has been alot about " debt forgiveness" in the media ... but what good will that be when the banks can't even correctly carry out MARP. I think we should name and shame them... but not sure if we are allowed or what good would it do either.
You seems have made all the right moves but really sad to see bank won't help.
There has been alot about " debt forgiveness" in the media ... but what good will that be when the banks can't even correctly carry out MARP. I think we should name and shame them... but not sure if we are allowed or what good would it do either.
I got independant advice last year too but as I'm not in arrears & they "suspect" (whose willing to bother paying for valuation?) house is in negative equity theres nothing to secure restructering of debts, ie., nothing in it for them. Meanwhile my take home is back to 2002 levels.
Seems to be people who are making the repayments (especially singletons with No dependants) are being forgotten about. This is still my family home ...... even if my "family" consists of me & a 4lb yorkie who has kept me sane last four years!
Seems to be people who are making the repayments (especially singletons with No dependants) are being forgotten about. This is still my family home ...... even if my "family" consists of me & a 4lb yorkie who has kept me sane last four years!
Thanks Iscritto, Hi Daisy2D,the banks just send their arrears letters I don't respond to anything at all just stuck to our plan we have 1 income,10 and 12yr old girls and just had enough of bean counters stressing us out, 3yrs on it's all working out, your house loan is long term so if you can keep as near to the payments as possible that's what I would do, try write down an amount to pay each month to each place and stick as close as possible to it leaving a few euro to at least feel like you have a life !!!
Daisy2D Another thing all the negative equity thing only really matters if you are planning on moving someplace and even at that I wonder does it? A lot of People seem to be stressing about something that is a figure on a balance sheet, if I were to buy a new car in the morning and take it out of the garage it would be worth about 7 grand less, 5 minutes later, property will pick up again it will just take time.
It's not very prudent to unilaterally cook up a cashflow management plan, stick to it, ignore arrears letters from the lender and not engage with them. This is a recipe for disaster. You need to talk to your lender in my view. Ignoring the problem is just putting your home at risk and storing up even more stress. If you are in arrears and they are increasing then you need to tackle the issue and make some possibly tough decisions about what really is essential expenditure.
Thanks for your input clubman however 3yrs on nothing has been ignored and everything is on track, going over the same conversation with a faceless individual on a phone on a weekly basis is somewhat tiring after the first few times, we made all the tough decisions about essential expenditure many moons ago and what I am posting here is merely a real life experience over the past few hrs working our way back to zero rather than advice on what somebody should do, if it helps someone else or gives them a new idea how to tackle their own situation well that's a good thing as far as I am concerned. The only way to win at anything is to have a definite goal and work to get there.
Not responding to arrears letters and engaging with the lender seems to be ignoring part of the problem to me.
Thanks Mark1, thats exactly my thinking, don't give a hoot about "negative equity", when I bought in 2004 this was to be my forever home. I am lucky in that I could afford to buy on my own & havn't had to deal with breakups etc. I budgeted for tax increases but never in million years did I think we would be subject to levies, paycuts & increases! I'm not currently in arrears but I'm completely stressed out & wondering for how much longer can I tread water negotiating with an uninterested uncooperative lender when simple answer seems to be over long haul it isn't a problem so in short term I pay off higher interest short term loan whilst paying half my morgage.
I only mentioned neg equity in terms of thats my lenders (& independant advice) reasoning for not allowing me to restructure debts. They all agree long term I'm in good shape but thats hard to swallow when your just existing