Residents Association Fee: €30 pa for what?

[T McGibney]

But can they?, if the list is written in such a way as to clearly identify those who haven't paid?

i.e

No 1- Paid
No 2- Paid
No 3- Paid

No 5- Paid

It might invite vigilante action against No 4.

It must be a fairly classy estate so.

 

[Jane Doe]

why do you care if you havent joined

it is my business what i care about. And i care abou something being run properly if i am going to give it money

yes they should have one, it should be provided to all members and made availible to all members.

maybe they have as i said i am not a member

do they have the authority to speak for everyone in the estate or are they just a bunck of goof offs and soap box politicans.

don't know

you're under no obligation to join a residents association

. I know

Like wise they actually have no legal authority to speak for you or anyone else in the estate.

they may have a right to speak on behalf of members, are members giving them that right by joining

Why do you need one is it not a council run estate?

council do not cut grass etc

do the council not maintain the areas?

no

is there a management company in place?

in a council estate?

isnt giving a donation the same as joining?

not sure legally

 

[aristotle]

You are thinking too much about this. Give them the 30 euro or whatever and after a few months you will likely see the estate looking neater and tidier, with the grass cut etc. You'll wonder why you flustered with the decision then.

I'm speaking from experience

 

[redfedora]

it is my business what i care about. And i care about something being run properly if i am going to give it money

but I thought you havent given them money? if you havent then you shouldnt really care how they do things.
I know i dont, there's a residents association in my estate, I'm not in it and couldnt care less what they do once they dont include me in their "we speak for the estate" any time they do I make sure that i write to the concerned body to say that I am not part of this group and offer my opinion seperate, they send me fliers every now and again and i think "yay free paper" and write my shopping lists on them.

maybe they have as i said i am not a member

well if you join make sure they do. it covers how the association is run, how people are appointed to the committee etc so that it doesnt become a tool for one persons agenda

don't know

might be worth looking into that because they may be speaking on your behalf and the likes of the council will think thats the conscensus view in the estate. if you have an opposing view you have a right to be heard

they may have a right to speak on behalf of members, are members giving them that right by joining

pretty much, normally they would ask all members for their view on things that need to be considered like speed bumps and go with the majority view. if they just do what they want without consultation then i'd be concerned.

council do not cut grass etc

they should do it, but they are probably using the "we've no money we're in a recession line while maintaining their salaries as some dublin councils have done.

not sure legally

what i mean was if you're going to donate would you not be as well off joining at least then you can offer your input and maybe ensure you see something for your money.

 

[Jane Doe]

but I thought you havent given them money?

i haven't but would consider it for the good of the estate.

if you havent then you shouldnt really care how they do things.
I know i dont, there's a residents association in my estate, I'm not in it and couldnt care less what they do once they dont include me in their "we speak for the estate" any time they do I make sure that i write to the concerned body to say that I am not part of this group and offer my opinion seperate,

good points but if you are not in it how would you know what they say

they send me fliers every now and again and i think "yay free paper" and write my shopping lists on them.

lol

well if you join make sure they do. it covers how the association is run, how people are appointed to the committee etc so that it doesnt become a tool for one persons agenda

good idea. Is there a law that says they must have a constitution though?

might be worth looking into that because they may be speaking on your behalf and the likes of the council will think thats the conscensus view in the estate. if you have an opposing view you have a right to be heard

true

they should do it, but they are probably using the "we've no money we're in a recession line while maintaining their salaries as some dublin councils have done.

councils no longer do this at least not around here. i think it was brought in before recession

what i mean was if you're going to donate would you not be as well off joining at least then you can offer your input and maybe ensure you see something for your money.

oh i see what you meant now

 

[dewdrop]

All i would say is that for the sake of the money involved you will be well rewarded in the event of selling your home. A well kept neat park will add thousands to the price.

 

[redfedora]

if you are not in it how would you know what they say

Very True, Know your enemy

good idea. Is there a law that says they must have a constitution though?

I'm pretty sure that any legally formed body must have a constitution. its called the Memo & Arts of Association. they are the rules that govern how the group are run, how it elects officials, what its primary purpose is etc. that applies to companies and i'm 90% it applies to charities and again 90% to sports clubs/ assiciations and Residents associations may fall under that. your local council will have someone that is involved with all local community grops and they can inform you better.

councils no longer do this at least not around here.

same out my way the local council think its ok for nettles to grow on the edge of playgrounds, they brought in this hippy policy as a cover for not cutting the grass. for my sins i'm lucky to be in a managed estate so at least teh grass is cut once a month.

but your council are still responsible for cutting it, they just may not bother. if a number of individuals came together and applied pressure say thorgh your TDs, elected officials, actual local councilers and not the environmental department or parks department in the council and possible local media they'd find the money some how.

 

[Complainer]

I'm pretty sure that any legally formed body must have a constitution. its called the Memo & Arts of Association. they are the rules that govern how the group are run, how it elects officials, what its primary purpose is etc. that applies to companies and i'm 90% it applies to charities and again 90% to sports clubs/ assiciations and Residents associations may fall under that. your local council will have someone that is involved with all local community grops and they can inform you better.

As other posters have said, you are over-thinking this. It sounds like the residents association consists of a few people who have got up off their asses and are doing some work to improve the area. Decide if you want these folk working on Articles of Association and constitutions, or do you want them working on getting the grass cut. The amount of money involved is tiny. Why not show a bit of trust in the people prepared to do the work, and give them a bit of support, and the €30, instead of nitpicking about formalities.

but your council are still responsible for cutting it, they just may not bother. if a number of individuals came together and applied pressure say thorgh your TDs, elected officials, actual local councilers and not the environmental department or parks department in the council and possible local media they'd find the money some how.

There is no general obligation on the council to cut grass on housing estates.

 

[monagt]

"There is no general obligation on the council to cut grass on housing estates." - I think there is once the estate is taken in charge by the council. If its run by a Management Company then its their responsibility.

On the €30, is this the first ever collection, if NO then ask for a copy of last years expenditure. If Yes, then find out specifically what they are going to do?, are they an elected committee, all residents invited to a meeting and a committee elected, if not, then it should be.
Are they going to have a Clean Up day?, provide signage, lobby the council & elected reps?

You could JOIN them...........

 

[redfedora]

As other posters have said, you are over-thinking this.

actually i'm not people think RAs are easy to set up, you get a group of like minded people together and away you go. its not that simple. it should be legally formed, be registered with the local council at the very least, i've also heard of some that are registered with the CRO under charitable organisations so they have no tax implications as they are non profit. but they do require a Memo & Arts.

It sounds like the residents association consists of a few people who have got up off their asses and are doing some work to improve the area.[/QUOTE

all aplaudable stuff

The amount of money involved is tiny. Why not show a bit of trust in the people prepared to do the work, and give them a bit of support, and the €30, instead of nitpicking about formalities..

Because if you dont think of the formalities like registration, liability insurance etc and something happens then ever person involvied has can be held liable for an unlimited amount. what happens if they decide to hire a lawn mower and someone losses a finger? it happens, who's going to compensate the person? extreme example? .

or another one, they keep going the grass cutting was a great success and the place looks lovely, and decide to start community events, great idea, lets have a street party. great idea, bouncey castle, deadly the kids will love it. you all chip in then on teh day little baby david does a tripple back flip out of it and splits himself on the concrete, who pays his medical bills and compo? every person involded is equally liable, it the association is properly formd and has a memo and arts it covers what their liability is (probably €1.27), and they should have liability insurance in place for these events

i'm not saying theres anything wrong with these groups but you caution anyone who jumps in head first without testing the water. make sure it is set up correctly and is run professionally not just by some group of people that want to use it as a stepping stone to a career in politics as i have seen happen, their over all agenda is to make it look like they are doing stuff but nothing actually gets done, the blame is placed elsewhere and the association gets all the praise for their "hard work"

There is no general obligation on the council to cut grass on housing estates.

i would have though that all local councel are responsible for the general upkeep of the area they are responsible for this includes waste dumping, drainage, lighting and grass cutting etc, they may only do it once a year but they are responsible for it

 

[RonanC]

I'm pretty sure that any legally formed body must have a constitution. its called the Memo & Arts of Association. they are the rules that govern how the group are run, how it elects officials, what its primary purpose is etc.

Memo & Arts only applies to Companies. An Association can be formed and a constitution of rules put in place so that the group or association will have aims, rules and objectives. An association can have public liability insurance without being legally formed (company) and this covers for any possible situation.

Very good handbook on residents associations here.

 

[RonanC]

i've also heard of some that are registered with the CRO under charitable organisations so they have no tax implications as they are non profit. but they do require a Memo & Arts.

If registered with the CRO, they are more than likely registered as a Guarantee Company without share capital, taking the form of a "non profit organisation". They are not charitable organisations.

A huge drawback of registering with the CRO as a Guarantee Company is, accounts must be fully audited every year and submitted to the CRO which can cost a significant amount of money, especially if not filed on time.

The simple as easiest way is to form the association with the help and supervision of the Local Council or Authority and make the likes of local TD's, Councillors and An Garda Siochana aware of the proposal or existance of the association. Put a constitution of rules in place and also put public liability insurance in place, cost of which is very little and can easily be paid from annual subs from residents.

 

[Complainer]

Because if you dont think of the formalities like registration, liability insurance etc and something happens then ever person involvied has can be held liable for an unlimited amount. what happens if they decide to hire a lawn mower and someone losses a finger? it happens, who's going to compensate the person? extreme example? .

or another one, they keep going the grass cutting was a great success and the place looks lovely, and decide to start community events, great idea, lets have a street party. great idea, bouncey castle, deadly the kids will love it. you all chip in then on teh day little baby david does a tripple back flip out of it and splits himself on the concrete, who pays his medical bills and compo? every person involded is equally liable, it the association is properly formd and has a memo and arts it covers what their liability is (probably €1.27), and they should have liability insurance in place for these events

i'm not saying theres anything wrong with these groups but you caution anyone who jumps in head first without testing the water. make sure it is set up correctly and is run professionally not just by some group of people that want to use it as a stepping stone to a career in politics as i have seen happen, their over all agenda is to make it look like they are doing stuff but nothing actually gets done, the blame is placed elsewhere and the association gets all the praise for their "hard work"

What if baby David trips on the uncut grass and breaks a leg while you're fretting about the paper work? Who's going to pay his compo then?

There are risks involved in every aspect of life, but you're getting into analysis paralysis.

If you want get off your ass and help them out by sorting out the Article of Association etc, then fair play to you. If you're using it as an excuse to nitpick at those who are actually getting something done, then this is fairly dispicable.

 

[redfedora]

Very good handbook on residents associations here.

read something similiar before by the local council in my area, But I was told that it should be registered with the CRO as a non profit type organisation. hence the memo and arts and I fully understand the obligation to file ARs

though the above booklet is good, Fingal need to get their facts straight because they are providing authority to individuals that do not have that authority:

your local Residents Association represents all members of your estate/area,

that's a falacy, legally they cant represent all people living in an estate unless all people living in that estate actually give them the authority to do so. all they can do is represent their members and there's a world of difference. ​

another important fact about the constitution is ​

Outsiders, especially potential funders, will want to see that your group is democratic and accountable. This involves having a clear procedure by which decisions are made

​

or in the OPs case potential members, ​

hence why i said the OP should ensure there is one in place to make sure it is properly run and governed. ​

What if baby David trips on the uncut grass and breaks a leg while you're fretting about the paper work? Who's going to pay his compo then?

its a public place, Sooo I'm going to go out on a limb her and say who ever has responsibility for that would be liable, and that would be the local council.​

BTW thrust me i do a lot for my area, if you check my posts you can probably gather what i do in the estate where i live.​

I'm not getting paralysis, i'm pragmatic all the things i mentioned are because 20 years ago baby david would have been told to suck it up, today the slightest little scratch and his mommy and poppy is picking up the phone and calling their solicitor coz they have them on speed dial.​

if you want to create a group like this you have an obligation to protect the liability of your members, to do otherwise would be a fup up of epic proportion IMO​

 

[Jane Doe]

Update

They came to me for the fee!! and i asked if they had a constitution. They said "no we're just interested in grass cutting and keeping the area tidy." I raised concerns about certain problems here, small enough to be fair and was given the fob off/"we have no money". said i would think about it.

I agree with a lot of what redfedora says about getting it right

Thans for the feedback everyone

 

[Yorrick]

Don't pay and sponge off your neighbours.

 

[col]

I agree with Yorrick. Let other residents pay for the upkeep. Its people like you that make this country great.

 

[Jane Doe]

I agree with Yorrick. Let other residents pay for the upkeep. Its people like you that make this country great.

why don't you and yorrick keep out of it

 

[fraggle]

why don't you and yorrick keep out of it

lol!

 

[mercman]

why don't you and yorrick keep out of it

Is this thread a rant or a way of Letting off Steam. OP asked a question and when others reply and they do not like the replies off they go blowing those that offer opinions out of it. IMO this should be moved to 'Letting off Steam' or better still this thread should be closed.