Brendan Burgess
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Good point, but these initiatives take a few years to have an impact
Reports: Government will retain rent controls for existing landlords but lift them for new investors
- Thread starter Mocame
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Good point, but these initiatives take a few years to have an impact
Rent controls to be eased for new builds in planned ‘pressure zones’ reform
Cap of 2% rise per annum will apply to existing tenancies but landlords will be able to charge more between tenancies
This is the final straw for me, as an accidental landlord. The mortgage isn't covered by the rent and I can't increase it to market levels so I'm going to sell up.
Even if you could it sounds like the yield might be marginal and so you should be selling anyway as it's probably not a good investment?
Dr Strangelove
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This is the policy equivalent of adding a set of stabilisers and battery propulsion to your bike instead of fixing your flat tyre and your broken set of gears.
You're probably right. At the beginning, the property was in negative equity and selling wasn't an option. Subsequently, the tenant wasn't causing and hassle, the property was recovering it's previous value, and selling would have been a hassle. The tenant did very well out of the RPZ and the rent is now about 50% of the market rates. Technically, I'm making a profit (rent - (mortage interest + expenses) = positive value) and pay taxes every year but it's still money out of my pocket (rental income - (mortgage payment + expenses) = negative value). I think I'll be calling a solicitor next week to see about beginning the eviction process.
I wonder if many will have been waiting on this announcement and now decide to sell.
The situation seems to be that anything existing stays RPZ to protect renters but it doesn’t apply to anything in future to encourage more building.
But whats to say that in 3 years time the next set of builds that come out of this won’t have a RPZ applied.
The same logic about the need to protect tenants would apply.
The situation seems to be that anything existing stays RPZ to protect renters but it doesn’t apply to anything in future to encourage more building.
But whats to say that in 3 years time the next set of builds that come out of this won’t have a RPZ applied.
The same logic about the need to protect tenants would apply.
Have to say the government have been so poor at setting up out details of their planned reform. The reform has been clearly leaked by government and all we hear are opposition politicians opposing it.
What about the fact that a lot of renters are sitting pretty on below market rents? There already is a two tier rental sector, where older existing renters profit at the expense of younger than people. Also rental hosing stock is increasingly going to be aged and decrepit because rents can only increase by so little. What landlord will invest in a property where returns are so limited?
My wife has an investment property in am RPZ and I think she should sell if the government is saying to her to wait another six years for a market rent reset.
What about the fact that a lot of renters are sitting pretty on below market rents? There already is a two tier rental sector, where older existing renters profit at the expense of younger than people. Also rental hosing stock is increasingly going to be aged and decrepit because rents can only increase by so little. What landlord will invest in a property where returns are so limited?
My wife has an investment property in am RPZ and I think she should sell if the government is saying to her to wait another six years for a market rent reset.
It seems that from now there would be a new type of tenancy for 6 years and during this 6 years there would be very very limited opportunities to evict without fault (if any). After these 6 years, I think LL could be able to reset rent. That is just my understanding. However, current tenants would benefit from the continuation of the current system as long as they were in the unlimited lease situation (in place since 2022). Some renters are still in the part 4 6 years lease situation. They might face the new system.
At this stage, the details are fairly limited.
Discussing the situation earlier on, as our current renters are probably not going to stay for many years, we somewhat saw the benefits. However, while the initial thought was that we might do some work in our property to attract the best rent possible (the market rent is about 60 per cent more than what we are able to charge), our second thought was: wait and see, anything could change again.
What years of start of tenancy does this apply to?
I think 6 years agreement isn’t a bad idea. It puts a limit on the commitment from the LL and gives the tenant a decent amount of life stability.
I can’t say I’m a fan of different rules depending if you are in or outside. All about votes.
Between June 2019 (less than 6 years ago) and 11 June 2022.
I don't know if the 6 years agreement is really the full situation. It might be 6 years of very very limited possibility to give notice. And it might mean that after six years one might still give notice only in order to sell, family moving or extensive refurbishment. Just based on the media reports speaking about more security for the renters.
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They don't only build apartments to rent. It's the costs to build that's causing the issue. Rents are contributing factor I'll concede.
I think everyone can see the govt just keeping the housing and construction just limping along on life support of new investment without actually fixing anything. Always kicking the can down the road.
I exited it a few years back. But I would go back to rentals if the opportunity arose again. Hard to get the same passive income any other way.
Crazy in a decades long housing crisis it's the govt policies making landlords live the market.
An older landlord we know is trying to decide if his tenant is in a 4 year or 6 year cycle or an unlimited tenancy. He asked us if we knew how the security of tenure rules apply to long standing tenancies, but I don’t really understand them tbh. He plans to contact his solicitor tomorrow but if someone could explain this for me that would be much appreciated.
His tenant moved in on 1/12/2013 so was on a four year cycle, clear enough. That should have moved to a Further Part4 tenancy on 1/12/2017 and run for another four years, again clear. But then the rules changed on 24 Dec 2016 which made new tenancies change to a six year cycle. So did his lease change to a six year cycle on 1/12/2017 or how did that work? The same tenant is still in the property, nothing changed except the rent within the allowed rules. The rent is 1500pm for a 3 bed house in Dublin where current market rents are 2.5/3k pm. TIA for any information.
His tenant moved in on 1/12/2013 so was on a four year cycle, clear enough. That should have moved to a Further Part4 tenancy on 1/12/2017 and run for another four years, again clear. But then the rules changed on 24 Dec 2016 which made new tenancies change to a six year cycle. So did his lease change to a six year cycle on 1/12/2017 or how did that work? The same tenant is still in the property, nothing changed except the rent within the allowed rules. The rent is 1500pm for a 3 bed house in Dublin where current market rents are 2.5/3k pm. TIA for any information.
If I understand the proposal correctly, once the new legislation comes in, all tenancies will be automatically of 6 years duration. The landlord can charge market rent when the tenancy starts & inflation or 2% thereafter. No fault evictions will banned during the 6 year period. At the end of the 6 year period, the landlord can then evict for sale or because a family member is moving in. If the landlord doesn't end the tenancy at the end of the first 6 year period, a second 6 year tenancy starts (but at what rent I don't know).
My question is, would small landlords sign up for this. 6 years is a very long time; an unexpected need to sell or provide accommodation for family or yourself could arise. 6 years is also a very long time with a difficult or uncooperative tenant.
My question is, would small landlords sign up for this. 6 years is a very long time; an unexpected need to sell or provide accommodation for family or yourself could arise. 6 years is also a very long time with a difficult or uncooperative tenant.
My understanding was the next tenancy after the change of legislation would be a 6yr tenancy automatically. I could be wrong.
presidenttttt
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I presume this is deliberately communicated in a terribly unclear way for political reasons?
Some media talking of new builds, and others of tenancies, and some both. My understanding is it is all about tenancy and new build has nothing to do with any of it, despite several different entities reporting as such?
For those saying 6 years is a long time, several countries in Europe would be 5-7, and even 10 years (Germany).
For reference rents to work they must weight heavily new rental contract pricing - otherwise they are artificially supressed by the existing rental base line.
Unfortunately, I do not trust our current political dynamics to act as an enabler of successful execution on these changes. There is no brave leadership on the issue.
Some media talking of new builds, and others of tenancies, and some both. My understanding is it is all about tenancy and new build has nothing to do with any of it, despite several different entities reporting as such?
For those saying 6 years is a long time, several countries in Europe would be 5-7, and even 10 years (Germany).
For reference rents to work they must weight heavily new rental contract pricing - otherwise they are artificially supressed by the existing rental base line.
Unfortunately, I do not trust our current political dynamics to act as an enabler of successful execution on these changes. There is no brave leadership on the issue.
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I think you have to think of this differently. It's not a temporary rental, that you can reclaim. It's a permanent (home) for tenant unless they break the contract. That's how it works in Europe.
Thanks for replying, the rules can be very confusing and our elderly friend is worried with more changes on the way.
What do you mean by the next tenancy - would that be a brand new tenancy with a brand new tenant that started after the changes in Dec 2016 ?
Was a Further Part4 tenancy (ie a renewal / roll-over of an existing lease) treated the same way as if it was a totally new tenancy?
Landlords will have to think of it differently alright because you'll only be able to reclaim every 6 years. Will small landlords be willing to do that though? If not, there will be a lot of exits in advance of the new rule applying. Presumably, the government is hoping that the funds and REITs will step in. The other risk of course is that just as your 6 year term ends, Sinn Fein will be in government and there will be a 'temporary' eviction ban which will definitely only last for the next 3 years.
Not sure that the cycle is quite so long elsewhere in Europe - this is what AI tells me about leases in France
Fixed-Term Leases:
Furnished rentals usually have minimum lease terms of one year (or nine months for students), while unfurnished rentals have a minimum term of three years (for private landlords) or six years (for companies).
Also Belgium
There are 2 common types of rental agreements in Belgium, based on their length:
- Short-term (up to 3 years)
- Long-term (3 – 9 years)