Replacement for Campbell O’Connor

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
38,648
I spoke to Campbell O'Connor and they can convert any shares in my Crest Account into certificates in whole or in part for €50 per line of share.

I spoke to Davy's to find out how to sell share certificates
1) I open an online account which will cost me €200 per year
2) I send them in the share certificate I want to sell.
3) They charge me €80 + VAT for dematerialising the share cert. ( No charge if the shares are worth over €20,000)
4) They charge me 0.5% sales commission
5) If I have 10,000 shares and want to sell 1,000, they will keep the 9,000 in their nominee account.
6) If I want to move the 9,000 shares from the nominee account back into share certs, they charge me €50 + VAT.

So, this is my current plan - I have Ryanair shares in a crest account and some German shares for which certificates are not possible.

1) Work out what Ryanair shares I need to sell over the next two years.
2) Convert the balance into share certificates
3) Open a De Giro Account
4) Move the German shares and the Ryanair Crest balance over to Degiro.

As I need money, sell the Ryanair shares via Degiro.
If I need to sell shares for which I have certificates, open a Davy account and dematerialise them.

But I will hold most of my portfolio in share certs.


Brendan
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
38,648
I sent this email last week to DeGiro
Hello

"I have a Crest Personal Account with Campbell O'Connor which is closing.

If I transfer to DeGiro what are the account maintenance fees if any?

I gather that you don't do Crest Personal Accounts, so how are the shares held and what are the protections for me if De Giro goes bust?

Brendan"

I got a very long reply about doing a portfolio transfer with these answers at the end.

There are no initial or setup fees to create an account and there are no inactivity fees, no annual maintenance charges, no service charges, no custody charges nor is there a minimum trading limit imposed on account holders.

Your shares are held by an SPV with the sole purpose of holding your shares.

You will be able to view your shares under your portfolio in the WebTrader.
 

Opus2018

Registered User
Messages
49
Hi all,

Two quick questions - does anyone here actually use DeGiro just to buy and sell shares? (Well more just buy shares).

And I presume Campbell and O'Connor won't do bed and breakfast transactions either if they are won't buy and sell shares at this point?

By the by, I checked Davy for a transaction - it's 1.65% with a €100 minimum so to keep it reasonable you'd need a transaction of around €6,000 to get down to the 1.65% level.
Oh and if you want a cert it's another €37. But at least it's an option - can anyone do any better on getting the share certificate as part of the share transaction?

Actually a third question - if you hold shares in DeGiro and you get paid a dividend, is tax deducted or do you declare it yourself??

Best,

Opus 2018.
 

Opus2018

Registered User
Messages
49
Hi Brendan,

Yes it is. However should you not be including the annual maintenance fee of €80 as part of the cost assuming one transaction? The cost of the transaction is €14.99 plus the cost of transferring the cert to paper form.
Best,

Opus 2018.
 

Johnsoner

Registered User
Messages
4
Having looked at everything in a bit of detail over the last few years since the purely online/broking only brokers have come along, DeGiro are by far the best value in terms of fees for execution only and custody and there aren't any hidden costs like the financial advisors. The issues come in so far as they are really just a transaction and custody specialists for individuals. They don't even really market to corporate, financial advisors, brokers, pension trustees etc. They also don't/won't provide advice - be it tax, pension or investment or more general advice. They have in some ways truly democratised investing (with the help of ETFs).

If you are moving from Campbell O'Connor execution only and paying the annual fee of €50, the safe custody fee of €20/€40/€60/€80/€100+ whatever it is depending on the size of the portfolio of shares, in addition to any buying and selling commissions then it makes sense to move to DeGiro. The likelihood is however you will probably need some guidance on issues at some point even if these issues may be small and so for these purposes it may be best to move to some sort of genuine financial adviser (who may operate their own brokerage or, as more and more are doing, they make just farm out the actual brokerage and custody to another party like DeGiro)

If they are in 18 countries they are obviously well capitalised and organised. They don't have a huge cost base and actually make revenues unlike someone like Robinhood in the US so even if worse comes to worst they'll just be bolted on to a large bank of some sort or be taken over by Revlout or Transferwise etc as they are of significant scale. There is always a counterparty risk involved but I don't think having a piece of paper is going to save anyone's bacon in this day and age unfortunately nor has it in the past be it with W & R Murrogh, Custom House Capital, Bloxhams or anyone else.

The other alternative is keeping cash under your mattress.

John
 

Laramie

Frequent Poster
Messages
384
I am a bit confused about Davy Stockbrokers.

I wish to purchase £75k of GSK to hold.

If I get Davy to do this I assume I can no longer get these shares in certificate form?

So what would be my costs associated with this transaction be? Because they will be holding these shares on my behalf will I be charged an annual % maintenance fee based on my £75k purchase?
 

abc_xyz

Registered User
Messages
31
Hi all,

Two quick questions - does anyone here actually use DeGiro just to buy and sell shares? (Well more just buy shares).

Actually a third question - if you hold shares in DeGiro and you get paid a dividend, is tax deducted or do you declare it yourself??
I've been using Degiro for a bit over a year. Maybe 12 transactions total, mostly purchases and have held the shares since. You declare tax yourself (though with holding tax is deducted). I find it a simple and easy interface and the charges are clearly laid out.

For example the account history screen includes the amounts of the charges for each transaction including stamp duty, fx fee and rate, etc if applicable. Dividends entries also include details of any with holding tax paid on the dividend. Separate from that I also got two reports on profit/loss and taxes paid (with withholding tax by country), one at 30/Nov and one 31/Dec, for make tax filing/calculation. Finally there was an annual report detailing all the charges I've paid.
 

davyselect

Registered User
Messages
34
I am a bit confused about Davy Stockbrokers.

I wish to purchase £75k of GSK to hold.

If I get Davy to do this I assume I can no longer get these shares in certificate form?

So what would be my costs associated with this transaction be? Because they will be holding these shares on my behalf will I be charged an annual % maintenance fee based on my £75k purchase?
Hi Laramie,

You can hold GSK shares in certificate form.

Best regards
davyselect
 

Laramie

Frequent Poster
Messages
384
You can hold GSK shares in certificate form.
Thanks for answering part of the question. Good to know that I can hold shares in certificate form through Davy Stockbrokers.

If you know, can you give me an answer to the second part of my question.

If I purchase £75k of GSK in certificate form to hold.What will my costs be and will there be ongoing yearly costs associated with having opened an account with you to buy these in the first place.
 

Opus2018

Registered User
Messages
49
Hi abc_xyz,

Many thanks for the answer on Degiro!

By the way Laramie, you should note there is an extra charge for getting the share certificate for GSK, but given the scale of the trade. it's not that much in the whole scheme of things - about €37 I think but it may be put aside if you're buying that amount of shares.

Best,

Opus 2018.
 

SoylentGreen

Frequent Poster
Messages
369
By the way Laramie, you should note there is an extra charge for getting the share certificate for GSK, but given the scale of the trade. it's not that much in the whole scheme of things - about €37 I think but it may be put aside if you're buying that amount of shares.
Yes. I think I read somewhere that if the value of the share certificate is over €25k there is no charge. This in itself is strange. Why would the value of a share certificate impact on the admin cost?

Hopefully someone from DavySelect might come back to this thread.
 

rob oyle

Frequent Poster
Messages
597
Thanks for answering part of the question. Good to know that I can hold shares in certificate form through Davy Stockbrokers.

If you know, can you give me an answer to the second part of my question.

If I purchase £75k of GSK in certificate form to hold.What will my costs be and will there be ongoing yearly costs associated with having opened an account with you to buy these in the first place.
Just to check - if you hold the share certificates, then you have no ongoing relationship with Davy. Much like the deeds for a house, once they are in your possession they become your responsibility and if you wanted to sell, you could go to any broker that would take the business and give them the certs to sell. There should be no ongoing costs but you wouldn't have an account to easily buy or sell the shares either.
 

davyselect

Registered User
Messages
34
Thanks for answering part of the question. Good to know that I can hold shares in certificate form through Davy Stockbrokers.

If you know, can you give me an answer to the second part of my question.

If I purchase £75k of GSK in certificate form to hold.What will my costs be and will there be ongoing yearly costs associated with having opened an account with you to buy these in the first place.
Hi Laramie,

The cost to buy £75k of GSK would be £375.

The ongoing costs of a Davy Select Personal Investment Account where Davy would hold the stock for you would be a €50 per quarter. This fee is reduced by the value of any commissions incurred during the quarter.

If you wanted to get a share certificate there would be a charge of €30+VAT. If you decided to close your account after receiving the share cert there would obviously be no ongoing account fee. You would need to open an account with a broker to sell the shares in the future.

Hopefully this is clear. Let is know if it is not.

Best regards
davyselect
 

davyselect

Registered User
Messages
34
Yes. I think I read somewhere that if the value of the share certificate is over €25k there is no charge. This in itself is strange. Why would the value of a share certificate impact on the admin cost?

Hopefully someone from DavySelect might come back to this thread.
Hi SoylentGreen,

This "no charge" applies to share cert lodgements greater than €20k.

Best regards
davyselect
 

Laramie

Frequent Poster
Messages
384
The cost to buy £75k of GSK would be £375.

The ongoing costs of a Davy Select Personal Investment Account where Davy would hold the stock for you would be a €50 per quarter. This fee is reduced by the value of any commissions incurred during the quarter.

If you wanted to get a share certificate there would be a charge of €30+VAT. If you decided to close your account after receiving the share cert there would obviously be no ongoing account fee. You would need to open an account with a broker to sell the shares in the future.
O.K. So the £375 is the .5% commission. The share cert is €30 plus VAT. Because I will have a share certificate then Davy would not be holding the stock on my behalf. I am personally holding it.
So can you confirm that there would be nil €50 charge per quarter if I leave the account open (as you will not be holding the stock) or do I actually have to contact Davy and close the account?
In other words, do you charge the €50 per quarter even if there are nil transactions and if I hold the share certs in certificate form.
 
Last edited:

Laramie

Frequent Poster
Messages
384
This "no charge" applies to share cert lodgements greater than €20k.
If I have 5 share certificates (5 x €5k). Do you count this as basically one lodgment of share certs or as 5 separate certs and will I be charged a fee?
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
38,648
So I made my decision.

I had shares in Ryanair in my Crest account and Campbell O'Connor has converted them to share certs.

I had shares in Renishaw in my Crest account, and Campbell O'Connor has converted most of them to share certs. I have kept a few in my Crest Account as I will be selling them over the next year.

I am left with German shares and the Wisdom Tree ETF in my Crest Account.

I opened an account with Davy Select.ie yesterday.

I chose them because I am a long time holder of these shares, so the higher transaction costs aren't that significant.

I could not find out who is behind DeGiro and as it's my long-term savings/pensions couldn't afford anything to go wrong. Maybe it's a false sense of security preferring Davys, an Irish company or partnership.

The other big advantage of Davys is that when I go to sell my share certs, they will do it for me. DeGiro wouldn't. I could have opened two accounts, but I like to keep my affairs as simple as possible.

Opening an account with DavySelect was very straightforward. Only problem was that they texted me a code which I did not get because I had put my phone number without the 353 in it on the form. I suggested to them that they should change this to make it obvious.

I will probably sell my online holdings over time although this would result in a less diversified portfolio.

Brendan
 

IsleOfMan

Frequent Poster
Messages
718
I am interested to hear how the DavySelect trading Platform works in practice.

Let's stick with Laramies example above of buying 5000 GSK shares.

When I want to buy these can I see the "live" trading price of the share. This share can have a 30p range per day. Do I simply purchase these shares myself at the "live" price or do I leave an instruction with DavySelect to purchase 5000 GSK shares? If so how can I be happy that DavySelect are getting me the best price.

For example. When I did business with Campbell O'Connor, I was watching the live trades online. I would ring Ken and he would get the price I wanted there and then. I could immediately see my trade online within seconds of giving the instruction over the phone. There was nil charge for this service.

Back in the day when I did some trading with Bloxham, you phoned them and they would wander off and make the purchase. In between giving the instruction the share price could have changed by several pence. I don't want to go back to those days ever again.
 
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