Renting by the room

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presidenttttt

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HMO, multiple occupancy, rent by the room. The model is less passive than renting a house (which is also not passive) but it also brings a higher return. Indeed in many areas the yield of renting a home as a whole is so low it makes no sense compared to a decent no risk savings account.

Interested to hear and share experiences of others. Learnings etc. Bills, insurance, configuration of property etc.
 
We don't have licensed HMOs here, its a UK concept.

You can indeed rent room by room if you wish. You register the property with RTB and add / remove tenants as they come and go.

If you are in an RPZ, and this is not a first time rental contract, you cannot increase the rent beyond the cap.

Wear and tear / repairs will increase; if you are handy and can do them yourself that will help.

You'll likely have more success with this model in an area popular with students.
 
Properties in question have not been rented. Fair point to index towards students, yet in my area I would be indexing towards professionals - police, nurses, engineers

Leo, could you say more about the license and where the line rests?
 
presidenttttt said:
Leo, could you say more about the license and where the line rests?
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The primary test is in whether the property has been let in its entirety and whether ongoing access is maintained. If you let by the room, clearly detailing exclusive use of a specified bedroom along with shared access to common areas, and maintain landlord access then you should avoid the requirements for a tenancy. Keeping some element of the property for exclusive use of the landlord is a good way of showing the entire property is not let.

Note the legislation allows for licensees to request to become tenants and the landlord must have valid justification for the refusal of any such request. The law is silent on what might be considered valid though!
 
Ok, so the common living area might be an office or a place the landlord can host a meeting with a licensee or potential licensee or other non related business....

Must the justification be shared with the licensee seeking tenancy? If not then it would seem the best response is refusal on the basis of valid justification- and let them include the cost and hassle of forcing you into a forum that requires you to divulge the detail?
 
Better reserve a shed or closet for maintenance tools or something, but ensuring you access the property at some regularity and without seeking permission would reinforce the arrangement.

It's not explicitly stated, but I'd imagine the expectation is that the landlord share those reasons. The reason just has to be reasonable, and not just to avoid becoming a tenancy.
 
As always be aware of what RTB says on their website

"Licences  
Typically most licence arrangements do not come under the remit of the RTB. Please note that because a licence is named as such, it does not necessarily mean it is not operating as a tenancy for the purposes of the RTB. 

Examples of a licence are a person staying in hotel, hostel or guesthouse or a person sharing a house with the owner".

I am of the opinion, that if it came to a complaint with the RTB, I don't believe renting the average single family home / apartment on a room basis would be accepted as a licensee arrangement.

But until this is tested via RTB / courts; we could either of us be right.
 
Would it be RTB or licensee who would go to court though, I'd imagine 99% of people who rent a room would have no interest or means in having a legal battle.

Off topic whinge but the government rent CAP has many unintended negative consequences in the market, so the efforts to find legal alternative models will only accelerate
 
A friend of mine rents a house by the room. Each tenant has own contract and he retains access rights which he vindicates occasionally, mainly to do garden work. All bills are in his name and tenants pay a flat rate.

He’s happy that he can defend this as a licensee arrangement.
 
DannyBoyD said:
If a case is brought, I would imagine a group such as Threshold would have a stake.
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They have no role in the dispute resolution process. Either party is free to consult whoever they like in preparing their case of course, but that's it.
 
DannyBoyD said:
As always be aware of what RTB says on their website

"Licences  
Typically most licence arrangements do not come under the remit of the RTB. Please note that because a licence is named as such, it does not necessarily mean it is not operating as a tenancy for the purposes of the RTB. 

Examples of a licence are a person staying in hotel, hostel or guesthouse or a person sharing a house with the owner".

I am of the opinion, that if it came to a complaint with the RTB, I don't believe renting the average single family home / apartment on a room basis would be accepted as a licensee arrangement.

But until this is tested via RTB / courts; we could either of us be right.
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The High Court has held that the RTB does not have the right to create a tenancy where one does not exist already.
 
You are referring to the recent court case, where tenant claimed to be in adverse posession?

And court ruled that registration with RTB did not create a tenancy.

As I recall from the newspaper report, there was no evidence of contract / lease / rent payment.

Calling tenants licensees to avoid RTB registration may not work out.

You pays your money, you takes your chances.
 
DannyBoyD said:
You are referring to the recent court case, where tenant claimed to be in adverse posession?

And court ruled that registration with RTB did not create a tenancy.

As I recall from the newspaper report, there was no evidence of contract / lease / rent payment.

Calling tenants licensees to avoid RTB registration may not work out.

You pays your money, you takes your chances.
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www.irishlegal.com

High Court: Residential Tenancies Board does not have jurisdiction to determine whether a valid tenancy existed in possession proceedings

The High Court has held that the Residential Tenancies Board (RTB) does not have jurisdiction to determine whether a valid tenancy existed in possession proceedings and, as such, refused an application by a defendant to adjourn the High Court proceedings until the RTB made a determination on the ten
www.irishlegal.com www.irishlegal.com
 
That still doesn't determine what is and what is not a licensee vs. tenancy.

We have seen even where a tenancy is not registered with RTB, tenants can bring a complaint.

As I've said before; only one of us can be right.

We may debate as much as we like online, until it's tested, we don't know.

I however won't be the test case.
 
DannyBoyD said:
That still doesn't determine what is and what is not a licensee vs. tenancy.
....
We may debate as much as we like online, until it's tested, we don't know.

I however won't be the test case.
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It's highly likely that there is already compelling common law jurisdiction case law on this if anyone has the money and motivation to pay legal experts for clarity on it.
 
DannyBoyD said:
You are referring to the recent court case, where tenant claimed to be in adverse posession?

And court ruled that registration with RTB did not create a tenancy.

As I recall from the newspaper report, there was no evidence of contract / lease / rent payment.

Calling tenants licensees to avoid RTB registration may not work out.

You pays your money, you takes your chances.
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And of course, that law can change.
 
lff12 said:
And of course, that law can change.
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On the bright side, it never changes overnight so anyone letting under a license arrangement would have plenty of time to terminate in advance of an unfavourable amendment to legislation. Provided of course they keep a watch on legislative developments.
 
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