Removing the mandatory retirement age

Discussion in 'Public sector pensions' started by Nordkapp, Nov 26, 2016.

  1. Nordkapp

    Nordkapp Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    130
    Was delighted to hear Justin Moran - Age Action Ireland talk about this subject on RTE radio during the week. Topic is one close to many peoples hearts as they wind their way out of the financial issues of the "lost decade" and try and move on.

    https://www.ageaction.ie/news/2016/11/25/age-action-calls-abolition-mandatory-retirement

    It is time to talk dirty on pensions and the retirement age, instead of kicking the can down the road when the State pension age changes.

    I am not an expert by any means on pensions however I do support a right to work till when ever one please's. I want to decide when to pack it in and when I have enough service built up, not because I reach a certain age of 65.
     
    roncondon likes this.
  2. Sophrosyne

    Sophrosyne Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    790
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2016
    Who knows what the future holds?

    Could the vast majority of people in the 1950s and 1960s have envisioned today's world?

    Can we envision the world of 2050s or 2060s?

    The so-called "pensions time bomb" thinking ignores universal change.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2016
    elacsaplau likes this.
  3. moneybox

    moneybox Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    715
    Nordkapp likes this.
  4. elacsaplau

    elacsaplau Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    208
    Interesting debate. I just read the briefing document. In it, Age Action states that:

    "But in reality the evidence indicates that reducing labour force participation among older people does not lead to increased employment for young people."

    This is a key question in this debate and the evidence provided by Age Action to support this contention does not support this contention! So, you have got to ask, what does this mean?!
     
  5. Conan

    Conan Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    609
    The issue of a compulsory retirement age is a complicated one:
    - should employers be allowed to establish a fixed retirement age?
    - There are current regulations in place which must be met where an employer has fixed retirement age
    - does the exact occupation influence the retirement age (e.g. manual v clerical)
    - the average life expectancy for a male retiring today at age 65 is almost 20 years ( about 3 years longer for females)
    - the gap between the typical retirement age of 65 and when the State Pension starts (currently 66 but due to go to 67 in 2021)
    - should the decision be with Employers or Employees? Is it realistic to give Employees the discretion?
    - will extending the retirement age by a few years limit the opportunities for those younger employees who might expect a promotion on the retirement of an older boss?
    - will extending the retirement age suit all employees? Many may still want to go at age 65 to enjoy life whilst still in good health
    - will extending the retirement age improve the funding level of many DB schemes

    I suspect that this is not a case where one size fits all (as with a compulsory retirement age).
     
  6. Wollie

    Wollie Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    78
    The biggest problem with removing the compulsory retirement age is that employment practices in certain sectors of the economy, particularly in the public sector, don't allow the natural progression of earnings with age. A self-employed person can work for as long as they like but their earnings tend to decline as they get older. The ratchet salary system prevalent in the public sector and in other grade-based employments doesn't allow this natural progression. The problem is compounded by final salary pension schemes.
     
  7. Nordkapp

    Nordkapp Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    130
    Thanks for the contributions, complicated topic, but firstly employers should strip away the mandatory age on at least the grounds that it is ageist.

    Public sector employers currently operate 4 Pension strands, Strand 2 which I am on has a mandatory retirement age of 65 while Strand 4 has average earnings and a 70 year retirement age. Hypothetically someone my age could technically join the organisation on Strand 4 and be allowed retire at 70 while I must go at 65! Some radical thinking needs to be done.

    I don't believe in this day and age that older workers hang onto jobs that prevent younger workers entering employment. I do think there should be optionality to allow a worker work up their 40/80s minimum should they so desire. Other things to consider are that market conditions when a worker "has" to retire may not favour their pension annuity pricing. They should have the option to go when they want to go or at least work until the State Pension age, in my case there will be a 3 year gap between both.

    One issue of contention in the Public service has been the cost neutral or early retirement of Public sector workers. These retirees were allowed retire with lump sums by our hero Brendan Howlin and are now eating into the pension pot from age 55 in some cases. It is the sheer numbers that were let retire early that will come home to roost. While this has been good in bringing new younger workers, these younger workers are well educated graduates. These well educated graduates want fast promotions compared to the worker they replaced. Promotions are putting financial strain on pay structures, so they tend to leave and move on. One wonders if the status quo were left as it was then the pension pot would not be hit so hard so early!
     
  8. trasneoir

    trasneoir Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    316
    Isn't this how Logan's Run started?
     
  9. Sophrosyne

    Sophrosyne Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    790
    I watch David Puttnam on Making Ireland Click.

    When addressing a group of students he mentioned that he was 75 and that his father, at that age, had been retired for 10 years.


    He said that many of the jobs of the future do not yet exist but told the students that many of them will still be working when they will be 100 year old.

    This was in the context of the need for education for future change.