Refusal to reinstate full working week

K

Kitten

Registered User
Messages
125
Hi all,

Very quick summary:-

2 employees
Boss put us on 3 days from April 2020 due to covid. Said it would be for a month or 2.
Company did not qualify as per the rules.
We supported the business and were quickly drawn into working our 2 non working days on occasion - we facilitated this so that's on us. I pulled back.
We have signed a new client for the past 2 months - significant revenue.
Boss is refusing to put us back on full salary until earliest September as he is trying to 'recoup' his loss of keeping the business open and we should be grateful.
New client has expectations of full team support 5 days. I have broached this with my boss and said I am being put in a position where I am lying to our client and am not comfortable about it. Outcome is essentially that I am expected to wing it. Both my colleague and I have worked the last 3 weeks on the days we are not paid for so as not to let the 'company' down. Again, we are facilitating this behaviour.

I have broached this 3 times once where it blew up into a considerable row.

If I resign - is it going be detrimental to the business? Of course not. Is it going to cause waves with the client - yes, the CEO (new client) is very happy with everything I have done for him and our relationship is building. I am representing our company very well. I don't mean that in an egotistical way, I am good at my job and I don't believe my boss wants me to leave.

My integrity is being tested. If I do what everyone says I should do and not be available on Thursday and Friday, my reputation is at risk as I will be considered non communicative and lacking in efficiency.

I am exhausted from the games.

Am I really looking for an answer or have I just answered my own question?
Kitten
 
I take it your boss owns the business and there is no one else in local management?

There is flexibility and there is being taken advantage of. In my experience, you get what you negotiate, not what is right/fair.

I would certainly give your employer one final chance in writing to put things right, pointing out that your position is bad for the business (makes the business look unreliable/unprofessional to the client as you can not be fully available on the days you are unpaid etc.) and bad for you (not available for other work, can't sign on part-time etc.). Calculate the back pay you are owed and say you're willing to waive it if feeling generous.

Meanwhile, I would start investigating other options.

Is the client contractually obliged to use your "employer"?

If your employment ended, could you service the client on your own? Or perhaps with your colleague?

You can't poach the client while you're an employee or use existing work product/materials/confidential information in a new venture. But you could certainly add the client on LinkedIn and, should your employment end, mention your services are available.
 
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Ketten
Are you paid for the extra days you work, I am reading it you are paid can you clear this up to get a better response,
 
There is one main investor who is in the background, they are a partnership so whilst my boss would 'report' to him it is very much a partnership. I have a really good relationship with him also but am not naive enough to think he doesn't know what is going on. I had a meeting arranged with him last week (to get him to sign some stuff, completely normal) and when I got there my boss was also present. It was as if he didn't want me talking out of school so to speak. The funny think was the minute I had seen he had excused himself from a meeting, I knew he would be there and i wasn't wrong. I am also not naive enough to speak out of school.

Could I offer the same services - no.

I have opened up conversations elsewhere.

Has the CEO of the client speculatively said he wants 'one of me' and can i help him find the person - yes. But with conflict of interest even if I left the firm I could never work directly for him. I would imagine the contract between my firm and them would mitigate it.

Regarding giving him one last chance, I think I am beyond it at this stage. I have had 3 strikes already. I genuinely believe that because we signed this big client that neither of us will leave and that he can carry this on indefinitely.

Also what my role involves now and what was on my job description - different planets. I have a very can do attitude and have learned a heap and contributed alot to the business as a result without any bonus, pay increase, vhi, or pension. I also completed the full QFA in 8 months over lockdown which is beneficial to the business. Again, I was told I should be grateful it was paid for.


kinnjohn said:
Ketten
Are you paid for the extra days you work, I am reading it you are paid can you clear this up to get a better response,
Click to expand...
Nope!
 
It sounds like you don't have a non-compete in your own contract. Even if you did, it might not be enforceable - restraint of trade.

I certainly think it's worth a conversation with client - they have already broached it. Client's contract with employer is likely to stop them actively poaching you, but I don't think it can stop you approaching them. And your employer doesn't sound very professional so I doubt their client agreements are water tight.
 
Thank you for your responses, i do believe what Mugsgame says about 'you get what you negotiate' plays a big part. I have facilitated this to an extent (not playing the victim card) by wanting to please and perform and being mindful of a startup environment albeit with alot of money behind it. The decision to keep us on reduced time/salary on signing a new client 17 months later is a step too far for me. There is a line.

I will make my decision, i believe the market place is picking up big time. Not overly concerned with working for the client...may be too close.

Thanks all.
K
 
Tell the client you are employed mon to wed and if they can't wait they should contact your boss. Setup an email auto responder.

Ideally when you agreed to work for no additional wages you should have agreed to get something in return for investing your time to support the business, e.g. future pay, equity in the business, profit share etc.

From what you described I would not be definite the investor knows what's going on.

Apply for new jobs to get a fair valuation of your worth.
 
Your current boss says you should be grateful, but at the same time he expects you to work for no pay. And now he is putting his company profitability ahead of paying you?

I assume you are collecting Job seeking benefit specifically systematic short-time working. You cannot work on the two days you are collecting unemployment benefit, so you should stop that immediately. And if you are not on the scheme you should start, it sounds exactly like it was designed for your circumstances. You should be spending those two days looking for work, and I think it is best to look for work in your field rather than any job.

You need to take back control of the situation here, your time and work is of value to your employer, you cannot give your time for free. If he does not value it enough to pay you (or appeal to your good nature, when he is earning a profit then you will all gain) then stop providing a free service. If he says the good time will start in Sept then get it in writing, back pay, wage increase etc.
 
Any employer who expects their people to work for free is someone you should not want to work for.
It says everything you need to know about the character of the person and the culture of the organisation.

If I was you and there were other jobs available I'd be long gone.
 
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Kitten said:
My integrity is being tested. If I do what everyone says I should do and not be available on Thursday and Friday, my reputation is at risk as I will be considered non communicative and lacking in efficiency.
Click to expand...
I think you have shown yourself to be reliable and going the extra mile for the company. However it has to end sometime. You should plainly tell your boss you will not continue to work for free. He needs to address this, the client is not your concern, its his. Not paying staff is all on him. You need to act professionally, take the bull by the horns and have a conversation with him. If payment is not an option ask for equity, or back payment within X amount of months but get it in writing, with a solicitor. The guy is taking complete advantage of you.
 
Your boss is trying to recoup his losses from Covid by paying his staff 60% of their salary!! Covid has hit a lot of people and business but I have never heard of someone passing on these losses to the staff. Simply tell your boss that you will work your contracted hours and that is it. If he wants you to work 5 days, you should be paid for it.

Loyalty to a company is a load of rubbish. People are hired to work in exchange for money. If you weren't paid money, you'd be gone. And if the company didn't have the work for you, you'd be let go. You are under no obligation to work due to loyalty and it really sounds like your boss is taking you for a ride.
 
Kitten said:
I also completed the full QFA in 8 months over lockdown which is beneficial to the business.
Click to expand...
Just saw this. If you are involved in financial services, why were you put on 3 days?? Financial services weren't hit by Covid. We were even given essential service status (god knows why? )
 
Steven Barrett said:
Loyalty to a company is a load of rubbish. People are hired to work in exchange for money. If you weren't paid money, you'd be gone. And if the company didn't have the work for you, you'd be let go.
Click to expand...
That's rubbish, loyalty is very important but it cuts both ways. It is certainly the case that the employer should show more loyalty but if it isn't a two way thing then it can produce a very corrosive environment.
 
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Purple said:
That's rubbish, loyalty is very important but it cuts both ways. It is certainly the case that the employer should show more loyalty but if it isn't a two way thing then it can produce a very corrosive environment.
Click to expand...
Companies are rarely loyal to their employees. There may be a boss who is loyal to their staff but if that person leaves, that is gone.
 
Kitten said:
There is one main investor who is in the background, they are a partnership so whilst my boss would 'report' to him it is very much a partnership. I have a really good relationship with him also but am not naive enough to think he doesn't know what is going on. I had a meeting arranged with him last week (to get him to sign some stuff, completely normal) and when I got there my boss was also present. It was as if he didn't want me talking out of school so to speak. The funny think was the minute I had seen he had excused himself from a meeting, I knew he would be there and i wasn't wrong. I am also not naive enough to speak out of school.

Could I offer the same services - no.

I have opened up conversations elsewhere.

Has the CEO of the client speculatively said he wants 'one of me' and can i help him find the person - yes. But with conflict of interest even if I left the firm I could never work directly for him. I would imagine the contract between my firm and them would mitigate it.

Regarding giving him one last chance, I think I am beyond it at this stage. I have had 3 strikes already. I genuinely believe that because we signed this big client that neither of us will leave and that he can carry this on indefinitely.

Also what my role involves now and what was on my job description - different planets. I have a very can do attitude and have learned a heap and contributed alot to the business as a result without any bonus, pay increase, vhi, or pension. I also completed the full QFA in 8 months over lockdown which is beneficial to the business. Again, I was told I should be grateful it was paid for.



Nope!
Click to expand...
First, off you should be paid for the extra hrs,
are you getting unemployment benefits for the days you do not work,
Was the plan to work staggered hours to cover the full week giving both employees the same amount of hrs each,
Will the new business gives both employees the same amount of hrs,
 
Steven Barrett said:
Companies are rarely loyal to their employees. There may be a boss who is loyal to their staff but if that person leaves, that is gone.
Click to expand...
I worked for a company for over 30 years who were very loyal to their employees for the simple reason to retain skill and ability, (common enough in Ireland,)
Loyalty is when the top people in a company know it is the people who work under them
Who really pays their wages,
 
Steven Barrett said:
Companies are rarely loyal to their employees
Click to expand...
That's just not true.
In the SME sector people work together for decades. That's particularly the case is more highly skilled businesses where staff turnover is low. Those businesses have good two way loyalty.

In the MNC sector employees are far more mercenary and decisions are made by managers who have never met the people those decisions affect.
 
Purple said:
Even if they are not loyal they should know that.
Click to expand...
In Kitten case, I don't expect Kitten will be paying their wages for much longer,
two-way loyalty employees know they get paid for the value they bring to an hour,
 
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