Referenda

A

amtc

Registered User
Messages
714
This is half between a genuine enquiry and an LOS so mods please move

- I voted at 7.02am in West Dublin and was amused to see a crowd moving (slowly) of elderly men, complete with caps and walking sticks, converging towards the polling station. As I described to my dad, who is 75, it was like watching a collection of Victor Meldrews. I could have made an episode of 'One Foot in the Grave'

Does anyone know if there is an age to stop voting? I am not being at all ageist here, but my nana who is in her 90s and has Alzheimers voted - it seems the only way not to vote is to get a doctor's cert (but this is one thing that is costly and why would anyone go to the bother). I must point out that she lives in another jurisdiction where voting is compulsory. (she holds dual citizenship and happens to be here hence why it's allowable).

- Although I voted no, I do so on the basis of reform - I have a first class honours degree/masters in public policy - but it's from DCU so I can't vote on the panel.

- Lastly, and I can't find the answer anywhere to this...what constitutes a spoiled vote? I understand if someone writes obscenities etc. across a ballot....but say if I genuinely mark the wrong box, completely black this out and then mark what I really meant- is that spoiled? Surely your intention is clear. If I put a tick instead of a cross is that spolied?

-
 
As far as I know, a spoiled vote is anything that is not a valid vote, i.e. an 'X' in a box is a valid vote.

I voted No, but despite the actions of Fianna Fail, McDowell, Norris, Quinn, Zappone, etc. I believe this referendum be a huge waste of time and political energy. Back to work lads and lasses & stop faffing around.
 
Well we are keeping our House of Lords.
Maybe some day we'll be a republic and all citizens will be treated equally. Until then we'll have an Upper House (as the House of Lords is called in the UK) that 1% of the people elect and appoint.
 
The NO side wanted it more. Fair play to them for bothering to vote.
 
+1, I voted no myself and was glad I made the effort to do so, if you don't bother you have no right to complain about the outcome.
 
Purple said:
Well we are keeping our House of Lords.
Maybe some day we'll be a republic and all citizens will be treated equally. Until then we'll have an Upper House (as the House of Lords is called in the UK) that 1% of the people elect and appoint.
Click to expand...

The house of Lords are usually born into a seat there.

The majority of people who are in the Seanad are democratically elected.

The elections are taken from select groups of people.

The only ones who are anyway failures are the ones who are put there by political parties........usually cos the electorate didn't do the party a favour and vote them in.

The majority of the Seanad are educated and smart people.

I don't claim to know all the workings of the House but I do know if those educated smart people are there working then I'd like it kept.

Have a look through it's member list.

Something to bear in mind here....just cos you can't see anything that is going on does not mean that there is nothing going on.
 
S.L.F said:
The house of Lords are usually born into a seat there.

The majority of people who are in the Seanad are democratically elected.

The elections are taken from select groups of people.

The only ones who are anyway failures are the ones who are put there by political parties........usually cos the electorate didn't do the party a favour and vote them in.

The majority of the Seanad are educated and smart people.

I don't claim to know all the workings of the House but I do know if those educated smart people are there working then I'd like it kept.

Have a look through it's member list.

Something to bear in mind here....just cos you can't see anything that is going on does not mean that there is nothing going on.
Click to expand...

The majority of Senator may be democratically elected by the strict definition of the word, but not in a universal suffrage sense. At the end of the day as the Seanad in it's current guise essentially has no teeth, it's an irrelevant body this broken economy could do without - but the people have spoken.

Fundamentally reforming it by giving it the power of veto over the dail gives a group of 'generally' unelected people the power over the peoples elected representative. Allow for direct election of Seantors and you are likely to end up with competing houses, which is currently causing chaos in the USA, so I'm not too such what can be done to make it meaningful without making matter worse.
 
My point in this instance was because my degree/masters is from DCU, I can't vote. It's a better one than a basic TCD/UCD arts degree. My cousin who got a TCD accredited degree though Tallaght IT can. I am not being elitist!
 
They will probably extend the franchise to other 3rd level graduates in the other universities and ITs.
 
Time said:
They will probably extend the franchise to other 3rd level graduates in the other universities and ITs.
Click to expand...

What is wrong with the rest of the uneducated great unwashed having an ould vote in this or are we just too stupid?
 
S.L.F said:
The house of Lords are usually born into a seat there.
Click to expand...
None of them are, not since the 1999 House of Lords Act which specifically states they can’t. It reads "No-one shall be a member of the House of Lords by virtue of a hereditary peerage.". That’s as clear as it gets.
Since the 1830’s the majority of them are not hereditary peers.

S.L.F said:
The majority of people who are in the Seanad are democratically elected.
Click to expand...
None of them are. If all of the people are not entitled to vote them it’s not democratic. Otherwise a minority who impose their will on the majority but take a vote amongst themselves can claim a democratic mandate. If the majority of the people in a country choose to retain a king, or a theocratic ruler, it is still not a democracy.
 
I'm pained that we missed the chance to do away with the circus that is the Seanad. A toothless, undemocratic construct stuffed with wafflers with a hugely inflated sense of their own importance. It's Kenny's fault, we'll never be rid of it now. I voted Yes despite the Government calling for same. Mind you, I was in the minority on the other question also.
 
S.L.F said:
The house of Lords are usually born into a seat there. Incorrect

The majority of people who are in the Seanad are democratically elected. - Yes, but only by a select few

The elections are taken from select groups of people - correct, but why should I get a vote and others don't, that isn't democratic in the way I understand it

The only ones who are anyway failures are the ones who are put there by political parties........usually cos the electorate didn't do the party a favour and vote them in - go have a count of how many Senators are members of a party, oh, too late, maybe you should have done that before voting

The majority of the Seanad are educated and smart people - so are a lot of our dole offices

I don't claim to know all the workings of the House but I do know if those educated smart people are there working then I'd like it kept. - why not extend this to everything and give everyone a job at the Stat'es expense, perhaps you should have read how little impact the Seanad has on legislation before voting

Have a look through it's member list.- I have, Mostly failed politicians with a few excellent contributors

Something to bear in mind here....just cos you can't see anything that is going on does not mean that there is nothing going on.
Click to expand...

This post shows the level of, I'm sorry, ignorance (I'm not saying you are ignorant in general but perhaps lacking knowledge on this particular issue) surrounding what the Seanad does and provides to the State.
 
The upper age and the ability to vote to be honest is not much of an issue - its only 1 vote ie - what percentage of the population is incapacitated versus the electorate as a whole - I have no idea of the actual numbers - but would take the view that it is small enough not to unduly influence the overall result.

Upper age - There is none, any adult over the age of 18 can vote as long as they are registered and meet the citizenship requirements - see here - http://www.checktheregister.ie/appforms/RFA_English_Form.pdf

I have counted at various Elections and Refenda over the years, votes where the choice of the voter is unclear are put to one side when sorting, these are then adjudicated on and a decision made by a panel whether they are valid or invalid (ie spoiled) The panel is made up of senior staff from the Returning Officers and agents are invited to witness and contribute to the process.
The decision is not made by the counters you see on the News - we are simply told, if there is any doubt in your mind - put it to one side.

Examples of a spoiled vote would be - both boxes ticked, neither box ticked, writing on the ballot paper that does not indicate a clear choice,

In this case a large number of voters did not tick either yes or no but wrote REFORM on the paper - simply put, that was not the question they were asked - these were counted as spoiled votes.
 
There were several ballots marked NO but had REFORM also on them. These were also deemed spoiled.
 
Time said:
There were several ballots marked NO but had REFORM also on them. These were also deemed spoiled.
Click to expand...

This was a complete disgrace

14 million cost of running this referendum on the basis of a whim by the leader of the country.

What a waste of money.
 
S.L.F said:
The majority of people who are in the Seanad are democratically elected.
Click to expand...

Only 6 senators (10%) are 'democratically elected' (if you want to call it that) by Trinity and NUIM, although I have to say that it is this element that sticks in my craw most about the Seanad. I went to university too and do not have a vote, but I don't think I am any better than someone who didn't go to university - this sort of elitism has no place in a proper democratic society.

I wonder, do all the 'No' voters think that Seanad reform will automatically follow? Like the way it was reformed after the 7th amendment referendum in 1979? Oh wait...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top