I went through this.. still am. I'll add a post here tomorrow. I asked in early 2021 and received pension record in June 2023. Found out 2 schools did the work, to prove I worked in 1997, 1999, 2005 etc.. Received second pension record to find Jan 2024, to find out that 20 years later, I was moved onto the new entrant pension (post 2004) and now pension age is 15 years away instead of 10. No AVC's as always told I didn't need them as payslip and salary scale suggest I am fine.I asked the DES for my record of service (for pension) last Nov. They said they were only dealing with family law cases & those retiring in 2023. I asked recently if they might have a rough idea of when I might get the record. They said they were only dealing with those retiring in 2024. Why is it so hard to get this? How long do people wait?
You have a legal right to pension statement estimate. Apply through a Data Subject access request which they have to reply to within a month. Ye should put in pq with your representative TD i cant believe this nonsense.Thanks Acer…they seem to be a law unto themselves! I don’t mind waiting but now they won’t even tell me when I might expect it. And like you, I could get any number of unpleasant surprises from it!
Yes, I really wish I had keep all my payslips. 1997 to 1998 - the school I worked in has since been bulldozed. There are ways around this though.Thanks Acer…they seem to be a law unto themselves! I don’t mind waiting but now they won’t even tell me when I might expect it. And like you, I could get any number of unpleasant surprises from it!
Yes, I really wish I had keep all my payslips. 1997 to 1998 - the school I worked in has since been bulldozed. There are ways around this though.
You could try phoning pensions today 2 to 5. I got through last Friday. Very nice team. Just very small. I have no partner, so no family law impending. Instead I said I was "thinking of career move"... Just so that you have a "way in". It is all a mess, even for Pensions. My post later will help.
@Meath Lady no afraid not, was Ulster Bank back then I'd say. But I will post now how I did find out more info:Acer perhaps you have bank statements going back to 1997 /1998, or perhaps you could order them. This would show you payments from DES.
I have found you need to triple check every figure they send you as when I retired they had multiple things wrong including trying to charge me superannuation that I had already paid.
Hi Acer,@Meath Lady no afraid not, was Ulster Bank back then I'd say. But I will post now how I did find out more info:
FB post 1 responding to someone who wasn't sure of pension record held by DES.
Some useful things that I did:
1. Typed up the pension service once received (after 2 years) onto excel or Google sheets. Check if any work anywhere missing (ETB, primary schools, national schools). If yes, there is a process to go through to get that sorted. I had 1 full year in a school missing, also had 6 weeks in a primary school included that I had forgotten, and ETB and Private School missing. Also time with VSO / APSO.
2. Ring DES and ask for a employment record. This is weird as then you get the exact dates of work.. but also there can still be mistakes. (I wish I had done this first.. as DES have info, it is so weird that pensions do not). You can ring PENSIONS (2 to 5pm) seems to work sometimes.
3. Magic Trick - Ring REVENUE (2 to 5pm ). They were super helpful!! Like amazing!!! I'm been serious. The lady was jumping through hoops to help me. Explain your situation and that you need to figure out Pension, but that the DES do not have accurate records and it takes years for a response with missing service etc.
Request an archive search of your employment record. This means someone will go to paper files. You will then get
1. Where you worked up to early 2000s.
2. What contract you were on or more so WHO PAID. This was super valuable as my early years (1997 to 2000) were listed as paid by *Board of Management, Private School, DES Primary School*.
These years are when
*I may not have paid pension*.
I only found this out Friday.
To give example:
I worked Dec 12 1999 to June 2000 in ETB school in Dublin.
To get this time moved over to DES Pension, I need to pay €407 to DES accountant. I have now set the ball rolling on what else I need to pay like this. It isn't clear, and I have burnt my salary slips from that time.
4. You may have a few different pensions.
I found out that I have 4 year 188 days of a Old Entrant/Pre 2004 pension) and the rest is New Entrant/Post 2004, as I just found out I was moved pensions.
This is called Preserved Pension.
There is another type of pension called a SPLIT pension for those who may have paid PRSI contributions before 1995. That may be you...
You need to figure out if you were out of the system more that 26 weeks and when you returned as that will be the pension you are on now. The other pensions still exist (have value) so don't panic like I did.
Finally .. I have just spend a huge chunk of time figuring this out. If you know someone good at excel or Google sheets you can set it up so you know:
1. The lump sum
2. The Contributory pension you would get per annum based on the
3. Age who are.. so you can then see 58, 59, 60, 61 years etc.
4. Salary increment that you hit at each age and the gross income amount at that increment.
Notional Service Payment may be possible. There are pros and cons. It is NOT the case that AVC's are always better. AVC have great tax benefits, but some funds don't perform great. Likewise NSP can be expensive, but if you could live a long time, and if you do not have dependents it could be a good choice. You fill paperwork for revenue and they do the figures so you can decide.
It didn't make sense to me until Friday when I did enough work that my brain figured it out.
POST 2: (although, I think I am missing info .. so not 100%)
Pension Lump Sum =
Final Gross Salary x 1.5 (150% )
Allowances must be help for 3 years.
Pension Amount =
(Years and Days of service) As a decimal 37 years 167 days = 37.5
So 37.5 x final salary ÷ 80
Hi Acer,
Looking at retirement here and my statement of service from DES doesn’t include the two years that I spent teaching with APSO in the 1980s. Do you know if it should or not (ie. did APSO pay pension contributions for volunteer teachers?)
Can you DM me an email or phone number and I will pass on all the contacts I have. I signed a contract in March 2004. At the same time APSO were evolving into VSO. I got contracted out to VSO UK for that year. Travel and expenses were refunded by VSO Ireland (state funded).Hi Acer,
Looking at retirement here and my statement of service from DES doesn’t include the two years that I spent teaching with APSO in the 1980s. Do you know if it should or not (ie. did APSO pay pension contributions for volunteer teachers?)
Thanks very much Acer, this will be invaluable for a friend of mine in the Teaching profession who is in a somewhat similar circumstance (re tracking down years) and many teachers will also benefit from your hard work. My friend has had huge difficulty tracing her temporary pension years and got push back which is not helpful. Your research will be very helpful to instigate the mining operation and navigating the minefield. How the dept escape the law re refusing to issue a statement every year of pension estimates, entitlement baffles me. I’m in similar situation, different employer who have hived off HR, Payroll &Pensions to NSSO and I was directed to use a modeller when requesting a pensions estimate which does not give accurate figures. I’ll keep on asking questions, it’s the only way but why so much resistance to providing our own information to us.Can you DM me an email or phone number and I will pass on all the contacts I have. I signed a contract in March 2004. At the same time APSO were evolving into VSO. I got contracted out to VSO UK for that year. Travel and expenses were refunded by VSO Ireland (state funded).
Pension changes came in April 2004. I knew nothing about them to be honest.
VSO Ireland had a skeleton staff and Comhlamh had 'returned volunteer support'.
Pension contribution were explained to me. The main point was "that it was vital I sign back in on my return with Comhlamh, to sort pension". Now, remember, March 2004 to Feb 2005 when I was organising paperwork, going back and over to Putney and Birmingham for training and Feb 2005, when I actual flew for placement /'left my teaching job' mid year (as that was only placement available) was the same time the pension changes were been embedded. I did not know anything about such changes.
Few did. Even today, public servants are blissfully unaware of pensions, except that we pay for them.
Unfortunately, it was only in Jan 2024 that I found out (after 3 years of emailing DES Pension for a record) that the pension Comhlamh was talking about then was PRSI and the State Pension ...not an "occupational pension". It was a big shock.
I have a 'preserved pension' form 1997 until 2004. I have to buy back many of these years as 'maternity leaves' etc. My time with VSO, moved me to the Post 2004 pension scheme (so retirement at 65, and no repayment of Spouse/Children's pension). I have no AVC's as on paper it always looked to Cornmarket and other financial advisors that l was on the Pre 2004 scheme. I received incremental credit for time away. When asked did I have a break in service, I would explain "I was teaching in Ireland, and then flew to start working on VSO contract". Were pension contributions paid? I would say "Yes, I think so, and explain about the phone call to Comhlamh on my return". This must read so 'naive', but it is so difficult to find out about your pension record in the DES, until right before retirement (although this has improved recently).
I have just recently asked Comhlamh for a statement on service for DES, as I have to 'buy back" those years through the DES to make them recognizable. This is for 2005/2006.
I have a great contact in DES for this as well, and he will be able to help in your case, if there is anything that can be done.
My time with VSO UK finding a suitable placement was tough. My volunteer recruitment person was arrogant and put down my training, Irish accent etc. Even suggested, I redo a proper Cambridge English Language course, then go off and do teach English in Vietnam 'for the year' (Queens English .. 'do a GAP type year at 30') and come back to VSO again. I was just a headache for him, and although many were lovely, this person was not. I was under pressure. He kept reminding me that I had signed a contact and 'was I serious'. I was offered some ridiculous placements that I was unqualified for like 'managing an education programme for primary school teachers in rural Mongolia'. Looking back it was probably some kind of inbuilt colonial thinking in VSO UK. I think I was seen as awkward. Here I was 'refusing this placement' as I was a 'post primary teacher, with no child development skills..and no management skills'.
Sorry.. I have gone off the point. I have contacts in DES and Pensions and Comhlamh that I had pass onto you so you can find out. Persist, until you have an answer in email.
The DES and Pensions were very helpful. My pension record was missing full years in other schools as well. I had to fill a form from the schools that I had worked there.
1. Ask Revenue to do an 'archive' search of your history.
2. Get your PRSI history (from Donegal I think).
3. Get DES to send you a statement of service. It was completely different that what pensions had for me.
4. Get Comhlamh to find a record for you. They have a direct contact in Social Welfare. This may be difficult as they were surprised to find my record in Jan 2024 from Feb 2005 to August 2006.
@Marsupial has found a great link there. It may be that in 1980's it was not included.
Yes the modeller never seems to be accurate or usable. Nowadays, young teachers get a pension statement once a year from a private company. It usually frightens the life out of them. Something like "You have paid €36 in pension".Thanks very much Acer, this will be invaluable for a friend of mine in the Teaching profession who is in a somewhat similar circumstance (re tracking down years) and many teachers will also benefit from your hard work. My friend has had huge difficulty tracing her temporary pension years and got push back which is not helpful. Your research will be very helpful to instigate the mining operation and navigating the minefield. How the dept escape the law re refusing to issue a statement every year of pension estimates, entitlement baffles me. I’m in similar situation, different employer who have hived off HR, Payroll &Pensions to NSSO and I was directed to use a modeller when requesting a pensions estimate which does not give accurate figures. I’ll keep on asking questions, it’s the only way but why so much resistance to providing our own information to us.
I think you hit my profile ... And send a message direct to me. I'll try and send one to you.How do I DM you, acer?
I suspect they have multiple, overlapping systems which need a lot of manual checking.It seems like a long time to press a button on a computer to generate a statement?
Yes, pre 2011 that is normal. I applied in early 2001 and received it was January 2024, before I received a corrected pension service record.Sorry to Hijack.
I’m pre 2011 (started 2009) and have never once received any form of statement regarding pension.
I’ve recently requested a service history from pensions dept in DES and 2 weeks after request I’ve been informed it will take at least 2-3 months.
I’m paying separate AVCs and am trying to get a handle on my overall pension situation.
It seems like a long time to press a button on a computer to generate a statement?
My understanding is that there is a legal obligation on employers, to issue a yearly pension statement, which is largely ignored by these employers. Shared Services NSSO perhaps are understaffed. Pensions section appear to be the most helpful, two very helpful, male staff members were trying to assist me in my request for a pension statement -mammoth task.I suspect they have multiple, overlapping systems which need a lot of manual checking.
I have a very simple preserved pre-2013 PS pension (one employer, full-time pattern, two grades) and it took the NSSO four months to produce a statement.