Recent large Electricity (ESB) & Gas (Bord Gais) Bills

Good news. My ESB bill for Jan-Feb is down, even allowing for the fact that it is only for 55 days rather than the usual 60/61 days. I expected it to be down as the electric shower is being used less now than previously.
 
Check that they have credited your last payment. Its easy to end up with a double bill if you are a little late paying, or post is slow etc.
 
One more thing about efficiency for boilers. Our Gas service includes an efficiency report. 9 year old boiler = 89% but its been serviced every year.

This gives a really good overview of costs of various fuels.
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See page 2
 
OK,

A little late seeking out a post liek this but figured I'd better ask.

My last ESB bill (I think covereing Jan/Feb was the biggest on eI have received by a long way. Now, I'm pretty damned anal in my 2 bed apartment about keeping all lights off etc, and as usually spend most of my time in my living area, the only real things on are three lamps, TV and SKY box when I'm at home. Due to sporting committments, I don't get home until 9pm 2-3 days a week, so to be honest, apartment isn't occupied a lot.

However, on asking my mother (who has a 4 bed semi-d with 5 people versus me and my partner in my apartment) our bills were the same. How, in the name of my bank account, is this possible? The only thing I can think of is the emersion, as I don't have an electric shower and this usually gets maybe an hour or two a day (at the very most). Do emersions really use up that much extra electricity? As I said, I was gob-smacked that my bill could be as high as a house with three times the people in in, usually occupying 3-4 rooms, several TVs etc.

My last bill was exact reading to exact reading, so there were no estimates involved.

Anyone have any ideas on the emersion?
 
My last ESB bill (I think covereing Jan/Feb was the biggest on eI have received by a long way. Now, I'm pretty damned anal in my 2 bed apartment about keeping all lights off etc, and as usually spend most of my time in my living area, the only real things on are three lamps, TV and SKY box when I'm at home. Due to sporting committments, I don't get home until 9pm 2-3 days a week, so to be honest, apartment isn't occupied a lot.

However, on asking my mother (who has a 4 bed semi-d with 5 people versus me and my partner in my apartment) our bills were the same. How, in the name of my bank account, is this possible? The only thing I can think of is the emersion, as I don't have an electric shower and this usually gets maybe an hour or two a day (at the very most). Do emersions really use up that much extra electricity? As I said, I was gob-smacked that my bill could be as high as a house with three times the people in in, usually occupying 3-4 rooms, several TVs etc.

My last bill was exact reading to exact reading, so there were no estimates involved.

Anyone have any ideas on the emersion?

Be very careful when using the Immersion. There is an urban myth out there that suggests it's just as cheap to leave it on all the time. Rubbish!

My advice is (a) make sure it's fitted with a lagging jacket if it doesn't already have a heat retaining covering (all new ones do) and (b) switch it on for no more than a half hour before you require hot water and make sure it's switched off afterwards. A timer is ideal for this. However, it seems you are already very careful with its usage (but if it doesn't have a timer maybe there have been times when it was left switched on all day).

The type of TV you have could make a big difference. For example, a traditional 21" CRT screen TV running for 40 hours a week will cost about €4 per two-months. A 42" plasma on the other hand will cost €23 for the same period.

If you have any plug-in heaters my advice is to throw them out or else use them only to heat up a room for 30 mins or so and then switch them off. They are very heavy users of electricity.

Other than that, the only other appliances I would keep a close eye are the washing machine (use only for a full load), the tumbler dryer (ditto), and make sure all appliances with standby mode are fully switched off at the mains after use.

You mention your last bill was based on an actual reading. Are you certain about the previous one? If that was estimated then the units you actually used during the previous billing period but which were not charged for because of the under-estimate are now being charged on your present bill.

Look at the number of days you have been billed. Some winter bills cover more than the usual 60 odd days and could be 70 days or more. That can make a huge difference at this time of year.

If you are still mystified try switching off all appliances and look at the meter. The revolving dial should come to a stop after a couple of minutes. If it doesn't it means there is still something causing it to revolve and if you can't isolate it call in an electrician and have him check your installation. You might have a wiring fault.

If it does stop as expected then take a meter reading every day around the same time for a week or so. That will give you your daily usage and knowing which appliances are in use you should be able to pinpoint the heavy users and hopefully be able to make economies.

Regards,

Fnergg
 
Be very careful when using the Immersion. There is an urban myth out there that suggests it's just as cheap to leave it on all the time. Rubbish!

My advice is (a) make sure it's fitted with a lagging jacket if it doesn't already have a heat retaining covering (all new ones do) and (b) switch it on for no more than a half hour before you require hot water and make sure it's switched off afterwards. A timer is ideal for this. However, it seems you are already very careful with its usage (but if it doesn't have a timer maybe there have been times when it was left switched on all day).

The type of TV you have could make a big difference. For example, a traditional 21" CRT screen TV running for 40 hours a week will cost about €4 per two-months. A 42" plasma on the other hand will cost €23 for the same period.

If you have any plug-in heaters my advice is to throw them out or else use them only to heat up a room for 30 mins or so and then switch them off. They are very heavy users of electricity.

Other than that, the only other appliances I would keep a close eye are the washing machine (use only for a full load), the tumbler dryer (ditto), and make sure all appliances with standby mode are fully switched off at the mains after use.

You mention your last bill was based on an actual reading. Are you certain about the previous one? If that was estimated then the units you actually used during the previous billing period but which were not charged for because of the under-estimate are now being charged on your present bill.

Look at the number of days you have been billed. Some winter bills cover more than the usual 60 odd days and could be 70 days or more. That can make a huge difference at this time of year.

If you are still mystified try switching off all appliances and look at the meter. The revolving dial should come to a stop after a couple of minutes. If it doesn't it means there is still something causing it to revolve and if you can't isolate it call in an electrician and have him check your installation. You might have a wiring fault.

If it does stop as expected then take a meter reading every day around the same time for a week or so. That will give you your daily usage and knowing which appliances are in use you should be able to pinpoint the heavy users and hopefully be able to make economies.

Regards,

Fnergg


Thanks, all sound advice which I try to implement as much as I can. Imersion, yes, sometimes gets forgotten, a timer could be ideal. However, I have another query here. My central heating panel has a "hot water" setting which can be used to heat the water as well. Could this be a cheaper alternative (does it use gas to heat it?!) or is it the same as just clicking the imersion?

Checked last bill, was an accurate one, however, as you mentioned, my expensive bill was for 77 days....so that does account for some of the increase.
 
Thanks, all sound advice which I try to implement as much as I can. Imersion, yes, sometimes gets forgotten, a timer could be ideal. However, I have another query here. My central heating panel has a "hot water" setting which can be used to heat the water as well. Could this be a cheaper alternative (does it use gas to heat it?!) or is it the same as just clicking the imersion?

Checked last bill, was an accurate one, however, as you mentioned, my expensive bill was for 77 days....so that does account for some of the increase.

Yeah, the 77 days is a major contributory factor to the high bill. I'd be wary of any method of heating water and I'd keep the time factor involved to the absolute minimum necessary be it electricity or gas. I take it your heating is gas so, yes, gas is what would be used to heat the water.

Regards,

Fnergg
 
I feel it is estimated readings which often give rise to large bills. Would it be an idea if esb and bord gais did the estimated readings at a time when usage is low which show lessen possibility of a large bill after a meter reading
 
To get a timer fitted to the imersion, do I call a professional, or is it something that can be done yourself?

What sort of ocsts are involved?
 
To get a timer fitted to the imersion, do I call a professional, or is it something that can be done yourself?

What sort of ocsts are involved?

Get a professional to do it unless you are very adept at electricity. Ring a few electricians and get quotes - I'd imagine you'd get it done for less than €100.

Regards,

Fnergg
 
I feel it is estimated readings which often give rise to large bills. Would it be an idea if esb and bord gais did the estimated readings at a time when usage is low which show lessen possibility of a large bill after a meter reading

Correct. Underestimated readings are probably the biggest cause of high bills (when the next actual reading is obtained the effect is an accumulated usage covering more than the usual two months).

Yes, ideally estimated readings would be done only in summer and all winter bills would be actual. However, there are practical, logistical reasons why neither Bord Gais or ESB can do that. The best advice to customers is to examine every bill and if it is estimated check the meter reading to see what the real reading is. If it's out by, say, 100 units either way contact your supplier and ask for an amended bill. If you don't have a key to your outside meter cabinet you can buy one at many hardware stores or ESB/BGE will send you out a free one.


Regards,

Fnergg
 
Heating your water with Gas should be a lot cheaper, especially if you don't have night saver or have the immersion on at peak times.
 
Re: ESB & Bord Gais Bill

The Liveline shows on the ESB were a disgrace. Various individuals phoned in to complain about the size of their bills and the impression given was that they were being ripped off by an unscrupulous utility. There was no challenge to some of the claims made, no probing as to why their bills had been so high. .

Many people will have bought large screen TVs in the recent past without realising that they cost *significantly* more to run than the old style cathode ray sets. The average household is now using much more electricity than 10 years ago.

Was this mere coincidence or a cleverly manipulated event by Bord Gais or its agents? Make up your own mind but I have no doubt whatsoever.

Well I think we're entitled to the 'unscrupulous utility' viewpoint for several reasons:
  • the astronomicial ESB salaries (on average over 72k p.a. reported recently, and voer 100k p.a. in one of the generating stations)
  • the continued obstructionism, by the ESB, of things such as commercial, micro generation, and until recently, wind
  • I'm not sure your statement vis-a-vis TV's is correct (but I will check it). This is the sort of stuff we saw advertised with regard to the Power of One, and turning off all those red LED appliances. I monitored my broadband router - which is on 24/7 btw - and it has consumed a mere 0.05 inside the last month.
 
Re: ESB & Bord Gais Bill

Well I think we're entitled to the 'unscrupulous utility' viewpoint for several reasons:
  • the astronomicial ESB salaries (on average over 72k p.a. reported recently, and voer 100k p.a. in one of the generating stations)
  • the continued obstructionism, by the ESB, of things such as commercial, micro generation, and until recently, wind
  • I'm not sure your statement vis-a-vis TV's is correct (but I will check it). This is the sort of stuff we saw advertised with regard to the Power of One, and turning off all those red LED appliances. I monitored my broadband router - which is on 24/7 btw - and it has consumed a mere 0.05 inside the last month.

The astronomical ESB salaries story has led many people to think that everyone in the ESB is on €72k or more. I know on the other hand that the typical pay rate of an ESB Customer Supply call centre employee- the person who answers the phone when you have a query - is about €14 per hour and the vast majority of other clerical staff in that company are not paid that much more.

Many of the public seem to think that average equals typical and of course it doesn't. If, for instance, I work for a company of two and I'm paid €20k and my boss is paid €200k our average pay is €110k.

There are indeed very highly paid and highly skilled people in the ESB. Some Network Technicians, for instance, are getting generous annual payments but then they are, for example, on call to deal with supply outages at all hours of the day and night and in all weathers. Getting a call at home on 9pm on a winter's night to travel maybe 30 miles to fix a fault that might take several hours in isolated terrain comes with a price and I for one don't begrudge it if it gets my electricity back in a reasonable time.

A large company like ESB with a presence across the globe requires a lot of highly skilled IT staff, financial experts, professional engineers and the like and they don't come cheap anywhere. If you pay peanuts.....

Power station workers are probably the highest paid on average and, yes, that comes in large part from the muscle they were able to wield in past years: if they didn't get their way the lights went out. However, their numbers are diminishing what with the reduction of market share of the generation market by ESB (currently only 38%) and the sale of many power stations. The last time the lights went out due to power station worker strike action was in the 1970s.

Remember also that these average salary figures factor in things like pension entitlements over time so that they do not represent the real working salaries on a weekly or monthly basis.

I would wager that if an exercise was done to get the average salary of, say, Bord Gais or bank employees the result might not be that much different.

And despite all that the Regulator has confirmed that salary costs account for only a miniscule portion of the cost of electricity - the major factor is the cost of fossil fuels for generation and we in Ireland are hugely dependent on imported fuels the cost of which has risen dramatically over the last 10 years.

ESB has within the last couple of weeks launched a very attractive microgeneration support payment system whereby customers will be paid 19c per unit for anything exported into the grid. (This will always only be of benefit to a tiny number of wealthy customers who have the means to purchase sufficient generating systems to supply their own homes and have capacity to feed into the grid). The ESB has also been fully in support of wind generation for several years and has it's own wind power subsidiary Hibernian Wind Power and has several wind power sites around the country.

Believe the difference in power consumption of plasma TVs as against the old CRT sets. A huge difference. A broadband router my contrast is very small usage wise. As a matter of interest why do you have it on 24/7? I always switch off mine after I finish an internet session - I would be fearful of hackers and the like to leave it on all the time.

Regards,

Fnergg
 
I also received that I considered to be a high gas bill but as I've just moved into a new house, I've nothing to compare it with.

I seem to be charged on Band A. Will the unite price get cheaper when I use over a certain amount?

Am I better off using gas for water heating rather than the immersion heater?

I've never had gas before and know nothing about it. Any tips welcome.
 
We received a gas bill yesterday for November and December of €296. We were shocked. It is just myself and my girlfriend living in a four bedroom house. We'd turn on the gas an average of about 3-4 hours a day. Does this bill sound reasonable?

One other factor might be that we only moved in last September and we got an estimate bill for the first month of €40. Maybe this might explain some of it but it still seems very high.
 
What was the meter reading when you moved in? Was the usage on the estimated bill close to reality?
Leo
 
...don't forget, ...it is -6 to -10 outside, and even with 3-4 hours of use 'as normal', it's going to take a lot more energy to keep the house warm.
 
Kev S,

A quick test for you to for that I found useful (and obvious) - take a meter reading of the gas, then run on for an hour, then take another meter reading. The difference will tell you how many units you consume in an hour.

Have a look here then to calculate the cost for the hour (take your number of units * 11.3911 to give the kWh):
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and
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I did mine recently and figured out it was roughly €1 per hour to turn on the heating, based on that if you had it on for say 4 hours per day for 2 months you would not be far off the €296.
 
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