Re: Learner Drivers

C

cagney

Registered User
Messages
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Did any one see what said in newspaper tonight?


Learner drivers and those just qualified will be automatically banned from driving if they get six penalty points instead of the normal 12 points. Drivers who pass the test face the six point ban for a further two years.

* L-drivers will not be permitted to drive above a certain fixed speed, expected to be 80kph. This means they cannot drive at higher permitted speeds such as 100kph on main roads and 120kph on motorways.

* They will be restricted to low engine size vehicles for a set period. The size has yet to be determined but it is expected L-drivers and new full licence holders will not be able to drive high-powered two-litre cars and will be restricted to entry grade 1l to 1.4l.

* They will have to put 'R' plates on the front and rear of their cars.

* They will have a zero drink-driving limit.

Mr Brett said he was "frustrated and slightly disillusioned" at the spate of road deaths involving young male drivers.

But motorists who pass their driving test will also be subject to the new rule for a two-year probationary period after they get their full licence.


They are blaming Learner drivers on everything that goes wrong on roads, Im a learner and i dont behave like that on road, if anything alot "so called Full licence driver" drive worse on road and they bully learner drivers.. Does anyone elase see the a problem with above?... How many out off the 435 something people go caught drink drinking last week were L-Drivers?

I love to hear any comments on this? :mad:
 
cagney said:
* L-drivers will not be permitted to drive above a certain fixed speed, expected to be 80kph. This means they cannot drive at higher permitted speeds such as 100kph on main roads and 120kph on motorways.

:mad:
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TBH if they do this they should ban L Drivers from N roads. Seeing as most of our N roads are single carriageway, it could be counter productive to let L Drivers drive on them (because of the dangerous overtaking that would result)
jd
 
It doesn't go far enough. There's no provision for a required minimum amount of training before they take to the road at all or are allowed to apply for their test.

I wonder how many of the 17 year olds killed on the roads this previous week were learner drivers and would they have been saved / safer if the restrictions had been in place?

They can make all the laws the like, if the Gardai don't enforce it, then it's useless and will not stop the carnage on the roads.
 
I agree, did you hear what MR BRett said, that people pay more for Irish dancing lessons than they do for driving lessons even though people are driving high power dangerous cars. something has to be done
 
I agree with every one of these proposals and as delgirl says they should go even further. It's a crazy situation at the minute where so many unlicensed drivers are on the road. Someone can go in a miserably fail their driving test and then they just hop in the car and drive off home again! Something has to be done and at least this is a start.
 
cagney said:
* L-drivers will not be permitted to drive above a certain fixed speed, expected to be 80kph. This means they cannot drive at higher permitted speeds such as 100kph on main roads and 120kph on motorways.
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L-drivers are not permitted on motorways anyway...

I don't think L-drivers are all to blame for the deaths on our roads, and I agree with delgirl, it doesn't matter what laws are in place if there's no enforcement of such.

The R-plates are already in place in the North and UK and apparently work, but I have never seen any statistics or such to prove this.

In the end though, all these won't make a blind bit of difference if there's no enforcement...
 
For all the talk of L drivers and young drivers linked to road deaths, can anyone give me a recent incident when an L driver has been stopped and fined for driving on M roads, where L drivers are stopped to check that they have a fully qualified driver with them in the car.... On any given day on the M50 / M1 I would guesstimate that I see about 1 in 4 cars with L plate and a single driver.
Its all very well to appear on the telly and in newspapers discussing the issue, but the cops on the roads don't seem to be interested in enforcing the current laws, so why would more laws make any difference!
Even though it would cause chaos, let the cops set up a few checks on the M roads daily for a week or 2 and see if that makes any difference.

The suggestions above are fine, R plate, etc, but why not limit the cc of a car in the first 1-2 years to under 1400cc.... its the combination of over confidence, and over powered that seems to be one of the fatal factors... These days it appears that most 19-22 year olds (and I'm not limiting it to fellows only, there are a lot of female speed freaks out there also) are in 1.6L cars as a bare minimum!
 
I agree it is wrong to put the blame mainly on L Drivers, as already stated, there are plenty of full licence holders who seem incapable of driving. I wonder, are there any statistics breaking down the % of learner/full licence holders involved in serious accidents. We definitely need a system of forcing people to have a minimum number of lessons signed off by a qualified instructor before being allowed to obtain a second or subsequent licence let alone sit a test.

But again, as others have said, without any real enforcement of the rules of the road and driving laws these measures will make little or no difference.
 
mell61 said:
The suggestions above are fine, R plate, etc, but why not limit the cc of a car in the first 1-2 years to under 1400cc.... its the combination of over confidence, and over powered that seems to be one of the fatal factors... These days it appears that most 19-22 year olds (and I'm not limiting it to fellows only, there are a lot of female speed freaks out there also) are in 1.6L cars as a bare minimum!
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A case in point here from an AAM contributor who has just passed his/her test and is looking at a BMW 320d with a 2 litre engine, turbo, 136bhp.

I understand people wanting to drive a nice car, I'm a bit of a car fanatic myself, but it's just too powerful, IMHO, for someone who has just passed their test.
 
How would Garda enforcement stop five young lads playing chicken at up to 150km/h on an isolated country road?
 
According to their website, the Road Safety Authority are seeking submissions from the public for their Road Safety Strategy 2007 - 2001, the e-mail address for submissions is [email protected]
 
ubiquitous said:
How would Garda enforcement stop five young lads playing chicken at up to 150km/h on an isolated country road?
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Totally agree with you. People have to start taking repsonsibility for their own lives and the lives of others and stop trying to blame the state. There is a difference between a tragic road accident and an accident waiting to happen.
 
cagney said:
Did any one see what said in newspaper tonight?


Learner drivers and those just qualified will be automatically banned from driving if they get six penalty points instead of the normal 12 points. Drivers who pass the test face the six point ban for a further two years.

* L-drivers will not be permitted to drive above a certain fixed speed, expected to be 80kph. This means they cannot drive at higher permitted speeds such as 100kph on main roads and 120kph on motorways.

* They will be restricted to low engine size vehicles for a set period. The size has yet to be determined but it is expected L-drivers and new full licence holders will not be able to drive high-powered two-litre cars and will be restricted to entry grade 1l to 1.4l.

* They will have to put 'R' plates on the front and rear of their cars.

* They will have a zero drink-driving limit.

Mr Brett said he was "frustrated and slightly disillusioned" at the spate of road deaths involving young male drivers.

But motorists who pass their driving test will also be subject to the new rule for a two-year probationary period after they get their full licence.


They are blaming Learner drivers on everything that goes wrong on roads, Im a learner and i dont behave like that on road, if anything alot "so called Full licence driver" drive worse on road and they bully learner drivers.. Does anyone elase see the a problem with above?... How many out off the 435 something people go caught drink drinking last week were L-Drivers?

I love to hear any comments on this? :mad:
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I agree, I too am a learner driver and am sick of the attitude of "fully qualified drivers". What about full licence holders who never sat a test in their life.

Also if you notice that the majority of these road accidents are on country roads which might suggest the poor condition of these roads as well
 
My two pence worth.....I don't believe it's about the 'L'.......I reckon it's about the 'age'......and....not being sexist but it's primarily a male thing....I for one am prepared to admit that I drove like a lunatic from 17 - 19, maybe 20....It wasn't about not being able to handle a car or not knowing the rules of the road, it was about aggression, speed, showing off, stupidity and immaturity. I would never have thought that I could die in a car ! Now I'm late 30's....Still big into cars, would still glance at 0-60's and top speeds etc. but I drive with respect for myself, my kids and those on the road around me. I realise how fragile the human body is and I've seen real photos of crash victims rather than the "It was the one without the seat belt that did the damage" type soft/shock tactic images. I'd be pretty sure that a lot of males reading this post would concur that most of the 'silly' driving they did was in their teens....

The main difficulty is that these new rules tar all drivers with the same brush, for instance, how many teenage girls play chicken with each other at 100...?? Yet, they will have to adhere to the same new regulations....

I'm struggling to come up with any suggestions at all as to how to get teenage boys to calm down on the road and the only thing that springs to mind takes me back to 'Not The Nine O'Clock News' all those years back when Pamela Stephenson said "Cut off their goolies, chop them off"
 
Clarkson mentioned a similar train of thought in his piece in Top Gear magazine recently. Basically 17-19 year old males reckon they are invincible and no amount of 'shock' advertising and media coverage of the carnage will change their minds.

Like yourself r2d2 i recall those years when i thought i could never crash. Never quite drove like a lunatic but definately thought i was a much better driver than i was. A detour into a ditch (after taking a corner too fast) quickly cured me of that. Thankfully i wasn't hurt and the car was even mostly fine afterwards too.

While i'm a big car fan today and drive a quite powerful car i've drastically changed my attitudes to driving. The 'fun' stuff is reserved for track days and i am obsessive about proper driving skills as taught by the likes of [broken link removed]

Driving should be seen as a privilage not a right and proper driving skills should be taught in secondary schools as part of the curriculum.
 
cagney said:
* L-drivers will not be permitted to drive above a certain fixed speed, expected to be 80kph. This means they cannot drive at higher permitted speeds such as 100kph on main roads and 120kph on motorways. . . . I love to hear any comments on this? :mad:
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IMHO all provisional licence holders should be put off the road.

A provisional licence should merely allow one to take lessons in a suitably equipped vehicle with a suitably qualified instructor. Having completed 20 hours on the road and some set amount of time in the classroom one should then be entitled to sit a driving test, each failure should necessitate a further 5 lessons before a re-test.

Newly qualified drivers should of course display R plates and amongst other things be restricted to a 1.2L car and a max. speed of 80K/H for 2 years. All vehicles should be electronically limited to 130K/H.

I seems to me that with an invertebrate Minister and a toothless RSA little will change. As ever, drivers should be reminded that driving is a privilege not a right.
 
You can make people do all the lessons and tests in the world and it won't make a bit of difference until both provisional and full licence drivers realise that speed and drink kill. How many bodies need to be put into the ground before people start to grasp the message. It doesn't take one lesson to learn that speeding kills. We all know it but yet still have the old "it will never happen to me" mentality....
 
sweeping statements like lets put all provo licence holders off the road is complete nonsense, how would the public transport system cope with all these people, how would people who had to move out of the city get to work without cars?

speed restrictions is also rubbsih, if these lads are willing to drive at 100mph plus as it is do you think they will just go "oh i better slow down now they have lowered the limit?" hardly.

What about the full licence holder who is driving from dublin to cork on the n8 and gets stuck behind 3 L drivers driving 80kmh, he speeds up and overtakes them, risky? you bet and when a family is wiped out because someone was held up for 20 minutes behind a Learner what are we going to do then.

look at the dreadful n6 road from kinnegad to rochford bridge (plenty more like that too) we are going to expect our most inexperienced drivers drive something like that and force them off the dual carriageway, that will really lower deaths alright

5 young lads sadly lost their lives however knee gerk reactions are no what is called for, a more visable garda presence on the roads, they dont need to be doing speed checks, their mere presence makes people think twice. Better roads, and education

Think about this, Religion is now a leaving cert subject, how about drivers education and road safety being a taught and compulsory leaving cert subject as opposed to some of the nonsense like religion or (dare I say it) Irish being a leaving cert subject. I would like my kids to leave school with a full driving licence and an understanding of road safety rather than having a deeper understanding of Allah.
 
contemporary said:
5 young lads sadly lost their lives however knee gerk reactions are no what is called for, a more visable garda presence on the roads, they dont need to be doing speed checks, their mere presence makes people think twice. Better roads, and education
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Agree with everything you say but I still don't understand why an increased Garda presence is the only way to make people think twice. The real deterrent to speeding and drink driving should be the fact that you could kill yourself or even worse kill someone elses loved one, as proved at the weekend. The fear of getting caught by the authorities and fined or penalty points should is nothing compared to that. Maybe I am just dreaming of an ideal world...
 
michaelm said:
IMHO all provisional licence holders should be put off the road.
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With the current situation this is a completely unworkable suggestion. At present you have to wait a year to sit your test. My other half applied for a test in Nov '04, did the test in Oct '05 and failed. She reapplied and is still waiting to sit it again. Maybe if this ridiculous situation was addressed and you could do your test a few weeks after applying then you could have a case for putting them off the road but until then.........
 
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