Questions re probate

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jtk

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hey guys, would appreciate some input on the following situation please....

MIL is 95 y/o, widowed, owns home valued at €350,000, has money in CU, has been in NH under FD for 9 months, terminally ill with life expectancy approx.. 2 months.

QUESTIONS:

1. MIL made a Will in 2018 leaving property etc jointly to my husband & sister (her only offspring), sister lives in UK – is that likely to cause any issues?

2. Hubby & his sister are named co-executors in the will, along with a cousin who nobody is speaking to following a row – can hubby & sister apply for probate without said cousins involvement?

3. Ballpark idea on how long probate is likely to take & how much it would cost?

4. MIL hasn’t got much in CU, so what kind of cost are we looking at for a funeral in Co. Wicklow?

Thanks in advance for any advice
 
Really sorry to hear about your MIL. Obviously there was probably a reason your MIL decided on 3 executors, but who know the reason why, normally one will take on the main duties, but would need to keep the others fully appraised of all steps along the way.

Does your spouse and SIL know what they want to do with the house, keep it, sell it? If they want to sell it, they can clear the house, put it up for sale once probate comes through, pay all expenses, funeral, estate agent, nursing home, fair deal, and then divide the remainder. Once the money is split it will be up to your SIL to determine what tax if any she needs to pay by UK law.

Would you MIL have funeral insurance with the credit union, that might be some help to you.

Depending on if there are no delays probate could take up to 6 months but the main delay is getting everything together to apply for probate.

Best of luck
 
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Q1 - sister in UK will need to apply for PPS if she doesn't already have one. Depending on value of inheritance, tax may be payable in Ireland.

Q2. Exec 1&2 can ask exec #3 to decline to serve, but exec 3 can refuse. So they'll have to figure it out.

Q3. Work on an expectation of 12 months, all going well it will be less than that; but if yr execs start a spat it could take much longer.

Q4. Funeral expenses are paid from the estate; so family can be reimbursed later when property sold. How much it costs is up to you & where the burial is. In Dublin the grave plot is the highest expense.
 
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Clamball said:
Really sorry to hear about your MIL. Obviously there was probably a reason your MIL decided on 3 executors, but who know the reason why, normally one will take on the main duties, but would need to keep the others fully appraised of all steps along the way.

Does your spouse and SIL know what they want to do with the house, keep it, sell it? If they want to sell it, they can clear the house, put it up for sale once probate comes through, pay all expenses, funeral, estate agent, nursing home, fair deal, and then divide the remainder. Once the money is split it will be up to your SIL to determine what tax if any she needs to pay by UK law.

Would you MIL have funeral insurance with the credit union, that might be some help to you.

Depending on if there are no delays probate could take up to 6 months but the main delay is getting everything together to apply for probate.

Best of luck
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thank you for your kindness.

when the will was being made, MIL was talked into 3 executors by the cousin & at the time she thought cousin was the only one who had her best interests at heart but has since seen that this isn't the case.

hubby & SIL both want to sell property asap

MIL has got some kind of funeral benefit through the CU, will look into this

after paying all outstanding utility bills, funeral expenses, estate agent, solicitor, FD & nursing home + any other misc bills that crop up, hubby & SIL are each hoping to end up with approx. €100k
 
DannyBoyD said:
Q1 - sister in UK will need to apply for PPS if she doesn't already have one. Depending on value of inheritance, tax may be payable in Ireland.

Q2. Exec 1&2 can ask exec #3 to decline to serve, but exec 3 can refuse. So they'll have to figure it out.

Q3. Work on an expectation of 12 months, all going well it will be less than that; but if yr execs start a spat it could take much longer.

Q4. Funeral expenses are paid from the estate; so family can be reimbursed later when property sold. How much it costs is up to you & where the burial is. In Dublin the grave plot is the highest expense.
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DannyBoy, thank you so much for all your advice, its much appreciated

Q1. SIL has an Irish passport but no PPS no. as she's never lived here, I had told her she'd need to apply but she didn't think so, thanks for confirming this :)

Q2. we're going to write to cousin & ask her to decline & see if she agrees, she's very stubborn so I can't see it myself but we'll see

Q3. we have all the documentation we think is needed to apply for probate & intend to get a solicitor to handle it in the hopes of speeding it all up, does probate have to be proven before we can put the house up for sale ?

Q4. if the funeral is likely to cost more than €3k we can't pay it & wait for reimbursement, burial is going to be in Bray, Wicklow, the plot is already bought as FIL is already in there
 
jtk said:
if the funeral is likely to cost more than €3k we can't pay it & wait for reimbursement
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Undertakers will usually wait quite some time for payment for the funeral expenses. When I went to pay relatives costs for the funeral, quite soon after the burial, they were very surprised and allowed a discount! It does not usually take too long for the credit union to pay out which might help.

You will need to check though to see if she is covered or not. Some of the credit unions are still allowing the cover free if you have a certain amount of savings with them. This can vary from one credit union to another. Others charge a fee per year. If you look online at their rules you should be able to establish what applies to her account.
 
jtk said:
DannyBoy, thank you so much for all your advice, its much appreciated

Q1. SIL has an Irish passport but no PPS no. as she's never lived here, I had told her she'd need to apply but she didn't think so, thanks for confirming this :)

Q2. we're going to write to cousin & ask her to decline & see if she agrees, she's very stubborn so I can't see it myself but we'll see

Q3. we have all the documentation we think is needed to apply for probate & intend to get a solicitor to handle it in the hopes of speeding it all up, does probate have to be proven before we can put the house up for sale ?

Q4. if the funeral is likely to cost more than €3k we can't pay it & wait for reimbursement, burial is going to be in Bray, Wicklow, the plot is already bought as FIL is already in there
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Q1. Pps will be required to complete a revenue declaration for each beneficiary. This is required to ensure any tax payable is collected before funds are disbursed, This is particularly important where a beneficiary is non-resident.
Q3. You will be able to list the property for sale but won't be able to close. Grant of probate gives the executor(s) the authority to dispose of any assets and complete property sale(s)
Q4. Most banks will have a bereavement unit who will assist blocking accounts & stopping DD's etc. From recent experience with BOI (who were very good) they can authorise payment of funeral expenses from the deceased person's account before probate is taken out. Alternatively, if you have a solicitor handling matters they may cover these costs and recoup from the estate during settlement to beneficiaries.
 
jtk said:
hey guys, would appreciate some input on the following situation please....

MIL is 95 y/o, widowed, owns home valued at €350,000, has money in CU, has been in NH under FD for 9 months, terminally ill with life expectancy approx.. 2 months.

QUESTIONS:

1. MIL made a Will in 2018 leaving property etc jointly to my husband & sister (her only offspring), sister lives in UK – is that likely to cause any issues?

2. Hubby & his sister are named co-executors in the will, along with a cousin who nobody is speaking to following a row – can hubby & sister apply for probate without said cousins involvement?

3. Ballpark idea on how long probate is likely to take & how much it would cost?

4. MIL hasn’t got much in CU, so what kind of cost are we looking at for a funeral in Co. Wicklow?

Thanks in advance for any advice
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When my father passed away, the credit union allowed for the immediate withdrawal of up to 20,000 to next of kin. The balance was subject to probate.

AFAIK, banks will also allow for the withdrawal of funds from otherwise frozen accounts to cover funeral expenses.

If the will is uncomplicated, you could reasonably apply for probate yourself without engaging a solicitor. My wife did this in the last year in respect of her mother’s estate. There are a few administrative steps but nothing insurmountable. You’ll save a couple of grand.
 
"When my father passed away, the credit union allowed for the immediate withdrawal of up to 20,000 to next of kin. The balance was subject to probate."

Just on the above point in Salvadore's post. A Credit Union will release funds (shares) of a deceased member up to a maximum of €23,000 to a nominated person only. Any excess funds that may be held are only released following Probate to the Executor.

The CU must have a completed and signed Form of Nomination which names the person(s) to whom the share funds are to be released. Otherwise all funds held are retained until post Probate.
 
thank you everyone for your very informative replies.

we're trying to check the details of the CU nominated person.

having given it a lot of thought, we've decided to engage our solicitor because of the potential issues when dealing with the cousin & also because they're used to handling probate & will hopefully be able to expedite it.

one last question regarding the FD if I may: MIL is in the NH under the FD loan scheme, how does the final bill get calculated? just trying to ensure we don't get a nasty shock in weeks to come
 
jtk said:
one last question regarding the FD if I may: MIL is in the NH under the FD loan scheme, how does the final bill get calculated? just trying to ensure we don't get a nasty shock in weeks to come
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If your MIL’s €36k disregard is being used on her CU savings, the calculation for the Fair Deal loan will be €350K x 7.5% = €26,250 or €504 weekly.

When MIL passes she will owe €504 for each week she was in the nursing home up to a maximum of 156 weeks. Whatever is owed will then be adjusted for inflation to give the final amount owed.
 
twofor1 said:
If your MIL’s €36k disregard is being used on her CU savings, the calculation for the Fair Deal loan will be €350K x 7.5% = €26,250 or €504 weekly.

When MIL passes she will owe €504 for each week she was in the nursing home up to a maximum of 156 weeks. Whatever is owed will then be adjusted for inflation to give the final amount owed.
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thanks for your reply, twofor1,
when the FD loan was calculated mid August last year MIL had €13k in CU so from our understanding some or all of the €36k disregard would have been used against her house, but correct us if we're wrong
 
Your understanding is right, the €36k disregard is first applied to savings, then other assets. If MIL only had €13k in savings, then the balance of €23k could be applied to the house, so €327k @ 7.5% for first 3 years.

Whoever applied for FD would have been advised where the disregard was used and how much was then assessed on the house.
 
update: MIL passed away & funeral was held Monday just gone. it was a blessed release for her in the end.

thank you everyone for your help n advice
 
jtk said:
update: MIL passed away & funeral was held Monday just gone. it was a blessed release for her in the end.

thank you everyone for your help n advice
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RIP. 95 was a great age to achieve. On the practical side citizens advice have a helpful list of items to look after. Your husband and SIL can start gathering all the paperwork needed bit by bit.
 
jtk said:
update: MIL passed away & funeral was held Monday just gone. it was a blessed release for her in the end.

thank you everyone for your help n advice
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Sorry for your loss. Before you engage a solicitor for the probate you should be given an estimate of the cost in writing. Do not accept a 'shure we'll see you right' response.

You do NOT have to hire the family solicitor, nor the solicitor who holds the original will.

Sounds like a simple estate which could be undertaken by one of you. But some people are not good at admin. Plus there is the cousin problem. It is easier if there is one executor to deal with the solicitor. It's an unpaid task, so if your cousin is being 'thick' let them at it.

All valuables should have been already removed from the house.

Credit unions might have different death benefits. Such as a lump sum in the event of death. You should speak to them.
 
Going through Probate myself as an Executor at the minute, it's taking up to 6 months in Dublin, 4 months or so in other places once the Solicitor puts in the paperwork

Remove valuables as already mentioned, ensure the house insurance is maintained and electricity and heating remains on.

Do not throw out any papers at this stage, you never know what is needed
 
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