Question Time - tonight with Michael Moore

[ajapale]

I assume this refers to this Michael Moore. I wont miss it. Although he is hard to take seriously when the speaks about Ireland - a subject he clearly knows nothing about.

On a related theme has anyone heard George Galloway on the radio over the last few days. Talk about a "tour de force"! I had no idea the man was so articulate and passionate.

ajapale

 

[piggy]

Although he is hard to take seriously when the speaks about Ireland - a subject he clearly knows nothing about.

Quite true ajapale.

On a related theme has anyone heard George Galloway on the radio over the last few days. Talk about a "tour de force"! I had no idea the man was so articulate and passionate.

I must admit to not knowing all that much about the man but there has been a concerted effort from certain sections of politics to rubbish this man in any way they see fit. He's a maverick for sure - but at least he stands up for his principles and I'm sure all the money from Saddam stories are rubbish (although I obviously do not have all the facts).

 

[sol]

...

"I must admit to not knowing all that much about the man but there has been a concerted effort from certain sections of politics to rubbish this man in any way they see fit. He's a maverick for sure - but at least he stands up for his principles "


eh, couldnt the same be said about Dubya

or Saddam

or McCreevy

 

[piggy]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/progr...954967.stm

Tonight - BBC1 - 22:45

 

[piggy]

Re: ...

eh, couldnt the same be said about Dubya

or Saddam

I'm sure it could but the difference is that the (supposed) lies being told about Galloway are just that - all lies. Are you aware of any stories told about the man that's he's strongly denied, that are in fact true?

As for Bush being principled that's a matter for debate. Politics in the States is very much governed by big business - plenty of evidence to back this up, especially relationships between members of Bushes cabinet and certain companies.

 

[purple]

On a related theme has anyone heard George Galloway on the radio over the last few days. Talk about a "tour de force"! I had no idea the man was so articulate and passionate

he also referred, on Newstalk, to the people who are sawing the heads off hostages in Iraq as freedom fighters. I don't have a lot of time for the man.

Although he is hard to take seriously when the speaks about Ireland - a subject he clearly knows nothing about.

I agree, but the only reason we know he talks crap about Ireland is because we know about the subject. I know bugger all about the real situation on the ground in Iraq so since the only yard stick I have to validate his views shows them to be off the mark I would have to question if he is on the mark about Iraq either. I don't like GWB so tend to agree with his views but that doesn't mean he's right.

 

[piggy]

he also referred, on Newstalk, to the people who are sawing the heads off hostages in Iraq as freedom fighters. I don't have a lot of time for the man.

Hi purple,

Did he specifically refer to the people who are cutting heads off as freedom fighters or that the insurgents are seen as freedom fighters. We tend to hold some very biased views in the west about what we see on television. As you said yourself, we don't know what's really going on over there.
My guess is if he said that those cutting off heads are freedom fighters he would immediately and unequivacably lose ALL of his support. His political career would be instantaneously over - so I'm just wondering if you misinterpreted what he said.
If you're right I'm with you on that point.


I feel a little foolish this morning. I missed Question Time last night. Was so tired I went to bed quite early and forgot to tape it. These early mornings are a killer

 

[Westbound]

Ah Mr Galloway...

He sounds like makes alot of sense, but then when you plug in other ideas, he begins to look a little dodgy:

He claims that 1m Iraqi kids died as a result of the sanctions. There is no doubt that the sanctions hit hardest at the least able to deal with them and feel very sad at the suffering endured but it isn't all the 'evil' west's fault as Mr galloway would have us believe - Saddam was getting richer and richer through the various schemes designed to allow vital aid to these people, by diverting it for his own use. During the Dunphy 'interview' it wasn't pointed out to him that perhaps it was Saddams fault that this suffering endured.

Secondly, he stated on Dunphy that Mrs Hassan is totally innocent, not making money off the back of the invasion etc. I could not belive that Dunphy didn't retort with 'so Ken Bigley etc was a deserved and legitmate target...' or some such, but let him away with that comment which suggested that he saw the other hostages in a dimmer light, as mercenaries making cash. Most if not all of the hostages were helping in one way or another - engineers, truck drivers etc.

He has one viewpoint and refuses to allow his dear Saddam to be disparaged and he should get much harder and more searching questions about his comments, such as those above. He seems to destest the West and all it stands for.

 

[piggy]

He seems to destest the West and all it stands for

Hi Westbound. I agree with most of what you said except this. I'm not trying to blindly defend Galloway but I don't think the above comment is a fair reflection on the man.

He does seem to go overboard in some of his views (allegedly) but he also strongly opposed what he sees as a very unjust war. Given that we now estimate that we've killed 100,000 innocents I think he and his hippie-loving commie lefties have a point

 

[EAMONN66]

Secondly, he stated on Dunphy that Mrs Hassan is totally innocent, not making money off the back of the invasion etc. I could not belive that Dunphy didn't retort with 'so Ken Bigley etc was a deserved and legitmate target...' or some such, but let him away with that comment which suggested that he saw the other hostages in a dimmer light, as mercenaries making cash. Most if not all of the hostages were helping in one way or another - engineers, truck drivers etc.

i have to agree with george here. while it does not justify what happened or make it any less despicable, there is a big distinction between an innocent aid worker and someone who chooses to go to iraq (or any other war zone) for commercial reasons. the civilian contractors in iraq are there by choice for the big bucks only. to claim that they are there to help iraq is so obviously stupid that if anything , it associates them with the "invaders" and dubya who are spouting the same line. personally i would have more sympathy for the poor saps who joined up for the free college education and probably think iraq is the last place in the world they want to be.
from our history books,tv,movies etc, we in ireland tend to see america as our natural ally, "the good guys". however, if they had killed 100000 people and bombed the **** out of us ,all in the name of democracy, we might think otherwise.

 

[Asimov]

Iraq

Piggy says our TV in the west is slanted and we don't get the truth.
Tell me oh pigster, which coutry has a media which tells the truth?

Do the Muslim world get the truth from Al Jazeera?

I spent time in SE Asia recently and had to get my 'truth' from CCTV (Chinese based broadcaster -English language).

Boy did I get a 'different' version of the truth!

I remember listening to John O'Shea of GOAL before I went away, he was on the radio practically tearing his hair out about the way the Sudanese government were treating the people of the Darfur region. He was in no doubt a genocide was occurring (do you TRUST him? Is he BIASED?) and that the world was turning a blind eye to it.

Meanwhile, on CCTV the story was WAY DIFFERENT!
The population of Darfur were being called terrorists who were running a civil uprising against the jolly nice Sudanese government!!

Piggy, there is every flavour of 'truth' out there, in Western Media and 'Eastern' Media. You choose the one you trust.
I don't trust FOX TV, nor do I trust AL JAZEERA. I equate the two as equal and opposite.

RTE is just This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language coverage.

Channel 4 News is the best news product I've seen anywhere in the world. Balanced, informative and in-depth.

Eamonn66, are you including the Nepalese contract cleaners in your general death sentence?
Fine for you, sitting in a comfortable office, in a nice safe job,poking your fun at the misfortunates who are forced into dirty and dangerous jobs to feed their family.
The people who murdered them are without a shred of mercy or decency. How dare you defend them!
My blood boils to read it. You should be made watch the video of their sufferring until you finally understand.

 

[Rabbit]

Re: Iraq

Saddam was a threat to the west. He gassed the Kurds, He invaded Kuwait, he attempted to assassinate President Bush Snr..... It was only a matter of time until he helped AlQuahida. 9/11 was a wake up call to the world.
Thank God Saddam was stopped / removed by the coalition of nations led by the US and UK. I have heard what Michael Moore says about Ireland and he has the amazing ability to speak with total confidence about something he knows almost nothing about. People from the far side of the world would think he was an expert on Ireland, but ask anyone from this part of the world and you can wide he is off the mark. In my opinion, he gives a totally on sided view of the situation in Iraq. Many anti-Bush people in the west do not realize that many Iraqis are pro-American , as they see that they liberated them from Saddams rule. They want America to remain and establish some order until at least after the elections. Who is killing all the Iraqi policemen, the the 50 on the bus last week ? - it is the insurgents ( or freedom fighters as "traitor" Moore calls them ) , many of whom are from Jordan and other middle eastern countries.

 

[piggy]

Re: Iraq

which coutry has a media which tells the truth?

None that I'm aware of.

Do the Muslim world get the truth from Al Jazeera?

Not necessarily, but they do get to see the bloody truth of wars such as that in Afghanistan and Iraq which we (in the West) never see.

I don't trust FOX TV, nor do I trust AL JAZEERA. I equate the two as equal and opposite.

Neither do I, but then it's usually fairly easy to see through the lies on both sides. I'm not sure you have a great understanding of what Al Jazeera is all about mind you. The West would have you believe they are devil worshippers of some sort. The truth is quite different. Israeli politicians have described it as one of the best news networks out there.

 

[Asimov]

Truth

Not necessarily, but they do get to see the bloody truth of wars such as that in Afghanistan and Iraq which we (in the West) never see.

More rubbish.
The muslims in SE Asia see what goes on in Iraq or Afghanistan the same way you do. On TV.

I lived in NI Ireland during the troubles. I saw it first hand. Did you? If I tell you that Ian Paisley is the devil and Gerry Adams a saint...by your own logic you must accept my word because I LIVED IT...you just saw it on the slanted British/Irish media!

I'm not sure you have a great understanding of what Al Jazeera is all about mind you....

But of course YOU DO....!?

Israeli politicians have described it as one of the best news networks out there.

Yes, high praise from the Israelis.
After all, who should know better about slanting the media than them?

You can show me a link now to that quote now...just to prove you aren't slanting THIS MEDIUM too.

 

[EAMONN66]

Re: Truth

asimov. i suggest you get your facts straight . nowhere did i defend any of the despicable acts going on in iraq. i merely pointed out the reason that most foreign non military workers (even those from nepal) are in iraq is for the money which is a fact. it is also a fact that most are employed by carpet baggers such as haliburton etc. and as such in the eyes of the nutter element in iraq, they are guilty by association.
none of these facts are a justification for what has happened
to some of them but they do kind of make it an predictably life threatening place to be for these people.
An aid worker is a bit different as their motives are non-partisan and non mercenary (dictionary.com - Motivated solely by a desire for monetary or material gain.) and they cannot be seen as exploiting iraq or its people in any way.

 

[Asimov]

Iraq

i merely pointed out the reason that most foreign non military workers (even those from nepal) are in iraq is for the money which is a fact.

Money is the reason people go to work. So what?

An aid worker is a bit different as their motives are non-partisan and non mercenary (dictionary.com - Motivated solely by a desire for monetary or material gain.) and they cannot be seen as exploiting iraq or its people in any way.

Are you seriously suggesting these mudering b*****ds care, or differentiate between one 'infidel' and another?
Why then have they not freed Mrs. Hassan. Do you think they will?
Stop trying to rationalise insanity and pure evil.

 

[EAMONN66]

Re: Truth

Saddam was a threat to the west

simply not true . the 10 plus years of sanctions and weapons inspectors had both successfully contained him and removed all his weapons programs.

It was only a matter of time until he helped AlQuahida.

al quaeda are fundamental muslim fanatics and which is the total opposite of saddams secular regime which had more in common with a south american dictatorship. their only common ground is that they were both originally supported by the u.s.
to say that it was only a matter of time for them to get together is a bit like saying that it is inevitable that the ira and uvf will team up as both are murdering nutters and come from the same place

9/11 was a wake up call to the world.

was it really . why then is osama still able to come on the telly tonight spouting his crap while the americans and brits have spent the last year justifying his cause for him. ill bet he has them queuing up now like never before.

many Iraqis are pro-American , as they see that they liberated them from Saddams rule.

they are better off now, are they?

insurgents ( or freedom fighters

their final title will be decided by who wins and gets to write the history books
an interesting historical comparison might be made with the people who fought with the french resistance in ww2. they fought the germans who had occupied their country without invitation and treated "collaborators" mercilessly yet the history books and hollywood have written them and the french generally up as the heroic good guys. they tend to ignore other minor details for example like the fact that thousands of french joined the SS and that the french navy was destroyed in 1940 in a battle with the british with the the loss of over 2000 french lives.

"traitor" Moore

i thought america was the land of free speech and democracy.
the only thing wrong with michael moore is that he frequently distorts (or makes up) facts to get his usually fairly valid points (about america) across. however, maybe we can make some allowances for this for this normally fatal journalistic crime when we consider who his core audience are.

 

[Asimov]

wins

their final title will be decided by who wins and gets to write the history books

And that will not be the terrorists.
So terrorists is what they are and terrorists is what they'll be for ever amen.

 

[Rabbit]

Re: Saddam etc

Quote:

"al quaeda are fundamental muslim fanatics and which is the total opposite of saddams secular regime which had more in common with a south american dictatorship. their only common ground is that they were both originally supported by the u.s.
to say that it was only a matter of time for them to get together is a bit like saying that it is inevitable that the ira and uvf will team up as both are murdering nutters and come from the same place"


Saddam and Bin Laden had much in common, not least a hatred of the US of A. Saddam had been at war with the US over Kuwait etc , and Bin Laden ....well we know what he done on Sept 11. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that extremist elements in Iraq, with or without Saddams knowledge, would have helped Bin Laden with whatever conventional, biological or crude nuclear device that may have been available. Saddam was a threat to the whole middle eastern region : his track record against the Kurds and the Kuwaitis etc alone show that.

Given what the US has done for us, I cannot understand why people would defend people like Saddam and Bin Laden.