Question about racial background

K

Kirian

Guest
What do people think of a question asking about racial background on a job application form. ON the application form it says this is to do with this company's equal opportunities policy.

Is this type of question normal? Is it common?
 
Next do it, aparently it is used to effect in Northern Ireland.

I also found it strange.
 
Don't really like the idea. Can lead to too many discriminatory (or reverse discriminatory) situations. I can't see that it would have any bearing on being able to do the job. Comes back to the whole race v. citizenship question perhaps. Do they ask what race or what nationality or what citizenship? If it's nationality or citizenship then I suppose the question could be related to work permits. I have seen this type of question on application forms, usually followed by something like "do you have a valid work permit". You could always contact the Equality Authority and ask them.
 
I would pointedly refuse to answer that question. For what it's worth, in the US -- where anti-discrimination law is much more sophisticated than here -- such a question would be illegal.
 
racial profiling

"For what it's worth, in the US -- where anti-discrimination law is much more sophisticated than here -- such a question would be illegal"

Are you sure? I worked in two different Manhattan law firms in my youth, and my recollection (which may be faulty) is that such questions were on application forms.

Remember, if you want to address a current race imbalance in an organisation, you may need to attempt to recruit from a particular group. To do this, you obviously need to track down members of this group from your pool of applicants. I think that this is permissible - though I am not sure I agree with it myself, but that's a whole other debate.
 
Re: racial profiling

As far as I know there's nothing preventing anybody asking such questions but there is governing how they can act based on the answers provided.
 
Re: racial profiling

In the UK,it might actually be obligatory to ask such questions to collect the information which is necessary to implement an equal opportunities policy.

Brendan
 
In the States, employers can ask but these questions (all voluntary)
Equal Employment Opportunities Information
Q1. Sex
No Response
Male
Female
Q2. Race
No Response
Caucasian -- (Not of Hispanic origin) All persons having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe or the Middle East.
Black or African American -- (Not of Hispanic origin) All persons having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.
Asian/Pacific Islander -- All persons having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, South east Asia, the Indian subcontinent, or the Pacific Islands. This area includes, for example, China, India, Japan, Korea, the Philippine Islands, and Samoa.
Hispanic -- All persons of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Central or South American, or other Spanish or Latino culture or origin, regardless of race.
Native American -- All persons having origins in any of the original peoples of North America, and who maintain cultural identification through tribal affiliation or community recognition.
Q3. Veteran
No Response
WWII Veteran: Veterans whose any part of their active military, naval, or air service was during WWII.</li><li>Vietnam Era Veteran: Veterans whose any part of their active military, naval, or air service was during the Vietnam Era (i.e. performed between August 5, 1964 and May 7, 1975) who (1) served on active duty for a period of more than 180 days and was discharged or released therefrom with other than Dishonorable Discharge, or 2) was discharged or released from active duty for a service-connected disability.
Korean War Veteran: Veterans whose any part of their active military, naval, or air service was during the Korean War.
Non-Veteran

We've a long way to go to approach equality.
 
..

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the question PROVIDED ITS RELEVANT TO THE JOB and asked of EVERYONE who applied for the job.

However, if a question relating to race was asked in the case of say, for example a supermarket check out job, an unsucessful candidate could take case for discrimination onthe basis that race is completely irrelevant to the position and it needn't have been asked.

Contrary to what some poster shave suggested, we have pretty strong equality legislation in this country. If it's ever applied properly, alot of people will find themselves on the wrong side.
 
Hi Max,

Q3 should include.

Q3. Veteran
Vietnam Era Veteran: Member of Alabama National Guard.

..then again it doesnt matter ..he got the job!

ajapale
 
Spin wrote -
[sic] Contrary to what some poster shave suggested, we have pretty strong equality legislation in this country. If it's ever applied properly, alot of people will find themselves on the wrong side.
Click to expand...
Care to substantiate this claim? ClubMan noted -
Click to expand...
The job application I saw this week required of the applicant to provide a DOB. No details, no discrimination.
 
Max,

your last point is not clear to me. Would you mind restating it.

Thanks,
ajapale
 
Kirian - My understanding of the racial origin background in job applications is that it is part of the Human Resources data-collection which is monitored to ensure the company/organisation is not discriminating against any particular GROUP (and it is the "racial group" rather than "individual" dimension which is important).

All state and major commercial institutions in the UK include this sheet in their job-application packs as a matter of course (and perhaps this originates in E.U. legislation on Equal Opportunities and Equal Access). Usually the application form also has a section asking if you are disabled, what kind of disability etc., to monitor that posts are presented in such a way as to encourage applications from disabled people who care capable of the work.

There is nothing invidious about the enquiry. However these issues can sometimes be taken to ludicrous extremes of political correctness. Fifteen years ago I worked as a "temp" in a London borough Council where most posts were filled by "temps". The reason? The politically-correct Council repeatedly failed to reach short-list stage with its recruitments because of their own requirement that they could not interview unless the shortlist included at least one person from an ethnic minority (black) and at least one disabled person!!
 
wrote -
<snip><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->it is part of the Human Resources data-collection which is monitored to ensure the company/organisation is not discriminating against any particular GROUP<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--></snip>
Click to expand...
Rather presumptuous Marie, that all employers have HR departments.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->, I contend that a majority of job applications are discarded (or should I have written, filtered) based upon irrelevant criterion. For a fact, I know of an ex-Soviet who holds degrees in international finance and industrial relations from a well-respected Irish graduate school, that applied to several Irish financial institutions. Not even a PFO letter. But after the surname was Irishized, four invitations to interview were extended.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Discrimination?
 
Thanks for the clarification, I agree with you discrimination when it occurs in Ireland is more subtle than just looking at the information volunteered on a an application form. For years people giving certain addresses in Dublin would not get an interview. In certain parts of the country certain names are associated with the travelling community. (Ward, McDonagh etc).
ajapale
 
..

In the case of your Russian friend, YES it would appear to be a case of discrimination and YES there is a remedy in law (see htttp://www.equality.ie )

Whether your friend wishes to pursue such an action is a personal matter but the law provides a remedy.

Getting back to the issue of the questions, there's a distinction between info collected for statistical purposes (which is voluntary in any case) and information which is sought in the context of the recruitment process proper.

Questions relating to race, age, gender, family status, etc shouldn't be asked unless they're directly related to the tasks that need to be performed, which in most cases they shouldn't be.
 
job application process

I agree that recruitment in Ireland is often skewed through a subjective "filter" system more subtle than grounds of racial origin.

I left Ireland in 1973 to take my chances in the great wide world because my applications for medical training and efforts to develop any kind of career outside of a factory or office dogsbody invariably hit the buffers because of my address, since my family lived in what in Ireland (only!) is called a "working-class estate".

Having achieved my potential and contributed truckloads to the economy and the health services in the UK I then encountered the "filter" system once more when my widow mother reached her 80's and needed assistance and companionship in the latter part of her life. I am told my applications for work were probably not being considered because of my UK address. On one occasion - desperate to move closer to my mother at any cost - I applied for a public-sector post for which I was vastly overqualified and educated. When I was turned down for the post I made waves and was informed that whilst I demonstrated knowledge of my specialism, more than the requisite senior clinical experience and understanding of the healthcare system as a whole I did not "know the system HERE" (Ireland).

My complaint to higher echelons elicited a pro-forma letter informing me that the decision of the panel was final and no further discussion would be entered into.

The difference between discrimination by recruiters on grounds of racial origin and the discriminations such as class-background or identification as "not one of the gang" is that legislation around racial discrimination is well-articulated. Meanwhile snobbery, envy, spite and contempt will continue to operate in human relations irrespective of legislation.
 
Re: job application process

The difference between discrimination by recruiters on grounds of racial origin and the discriminations such as class-background or identification as "not one of the gang" is that legislation around racial discrimination is well-articulated. Meanwhile snobbery, envy, spite and contempt will continue to operate in human relations irrespective of legislation.
Click to expand...

I agree that there is a great deal of snobbery in this country but I think suffering from snobbery is a little different that suffering as a result of racism

If your address is not what you would like it to be (or your potential employer would like it to be), you can always use a postal address of a family member or friend
I did when I applied for jobs when I was staring on the long windy road of accountancy, and was not asked where I lived in the interview, I wasn't lying and still got the interviews

I know a job as a trainee accountant is possibly a little different than your situation though

But back to the point, snobbery will always be there but it can be worked around
People can join the right golf club etc

But racial descrimination is a little different, you can't just paint yourself white if that's what you think the employer wants to see

Stu
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top