Qs re. building by direct labour.

[Meathman99]

Re: Qs re. building by direct labour - please help!

that the standard of work is much higher and the finish whether it be insulation levels, standard of tiling, painting, carpentary are well above that of those which are build by builders, the difference is the self builder is in charge of something they do care about, while builders are only interested in getting the job done as quickly as possible, getting their money and moving on.

The builder prices and builds according to the drawing and specification provided by the client. He enters a contract to do a certain parcel of work to an acceptable level. If the builder increases the insulation level or provides a skimmed finish instead of a "taped and jointed" finish they will be deviating from the spec.

 

[SectionA-A]

Re: Qs re. building by direct labour - please help!

I was asked to comment on this thread.

I agree with The Architectural Technician (Syd the beat) in one regard.
Some clients do not spot the problems coming.
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A simple example I've seen lately: if the clients are not managing their trades correctly, the 2nd Fix Carpentry Starts before the 2nd Fix Plumbing.
"So what" some people say, "the house is plastered, painted, wired and looking good, we just want to get in". However while the house is still drying out the heads are swelling on the engineered doors and the lovely new timber floors are lifting. This is simple to see when I put it like this, believe me, some people do not listen and have no common sense.
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However, on the other hand,
I do agree with the self builder (yop) in another regard.

While the project is not managed by a builder, and in fact this person is not in the construction industry, so long as common sense in used, and your not afraid to take advice from your engineer (who you will have to employ regardless) organising the build yourself can be rewarding and cost effective.
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I would say that getting the engineer on board from the planning stage is the key. Build up a good working relation ship with him/her and dont be afraid to ask silly questions, often times are that these are not silly questions at all.


So in summary, the self build will be supervised by your engineer anyway, and while it is the cheaper build option, just use common sence and dont be afraid to take advice. Your engineer will usually be helpful enough to start you off with a few good contacts and then each trade can usually identify good trades that have worked with them on other jobs.

Section A-A

 

[sydthebeat]

Re: Qs re. building by direct labour - please help!

The builder prices and builds according to the drawing and specification provided by the client. He enters a contract to do a certain parcel of work to an acceptable level. If the builder increases the insulation level or provides a skimmed finish instead of a "taped and jointed" finish they will be deviating from the spec.

more often than not these plans and specifications are inadequate... planning drawings are used in many cases as construction drawings.

the self build will be supervised by your engineer anyway, and while it is the cheaper build option, just use common sence and dont be afraid to take advice. Your engineer will usually be helpful enough to start you off with a few good contacts and then each trade can usually identify good trades that have worked with them on other jobs.

the terms and conditions of this arrangement need to be clearly agreed beforehand... as responsibility always becomes an issue when mistakes arise......
the vast majority of one-off builds are not 'supervised'... they are simply 'inspected' from the pint of view of building regulations and planning permissions. This engagement does not take best practise into account, nor does it take responsibility for errors........

 

[yop]

Re: Qs re. building by direct labour - please help!

I would say that getting the engineer on board from the planning stage is the key. Build up a good working relation ship with him/her and dont be afraid to ask silly questions, often times are that these are not silly questions at all.

Your engineer will usually be helpful enough to start you off with a few good contacts and then each trade can usually identify good trades that have worked with them on other jobs.

2 good points, the engineer definately has to have a the patience to put up with daft questions and give advice, that is also true about the contacts part of it though.

Meathman, sorry what I meant to say was that if you compare a house finish of a self builder involved in the whole process with that which a builder did on an estate or even a 1 off, then the finish you will find will be higher and of better standard.
I should not really have mentioned material in that statement, I mean as regards pure workmanship

 

[yop]

Re: Qs re. building by direct labour - please help!

the vast majority of one-off builds are not 'supervised'... they are simply 'inspected' from the pint of view of building regulations and planning permissions. This engagement does not take best practise into account, nor does it take responsibility for errors........

I see where you are coming from as regards this, it does come down to the engineer and what is specified, that is a point I took for granted (fatal mistake, take nothing for granted )

 

[Demps]

Re: Qs re. building by direct labour - please help!

Mr Ed.

Can You give some details on the company thats going to do the Project Management for You - or PM me if You dont want to post it

Thanks

 

[Pookie]

Re: Qs re. building by direct labour - please help!

Hello Mr Ed
Yes you are mad. We were in a similar situation last spring, and didnt know what to do. I was 6 months pregnant with first child. Both myself and husband have stressful jobs.
At first we were attracted by all the stories of being able to save tonnes of money going direct labour. However after discussing with our architect we decided it is a false economy - especially if you have no experience in building.
After looking for a few quotes we went with a self build construction management firm. Signed the contract a few days before jnr was born, and it was all systems go, and we could relax and enjoy the new addition.
It was probably the best decision we ever made - although we are paying for the privelige. Our Project Manager is great, we are thinking of adopting him after we finish the build. I would have no hesiation in recommending them.

 

[Quasiff]

Re: Qs re. building by direct labour - please help!

Hello Mr Ed
After looking for a few quotes we went with a self build construction management firm. Signed the contract a few days before jnr was born, and it was all systems go, and we could relax and enjoy the new addition.
It was probably the best decision we ever made - although we are paying for the privelige. Our Project Manager is great, we are thinking of adopting him after we finish the build. I would have no hesiation in recommending them.

Can you say who this company is? PM is fine if you don't want to post here.

Did you select a qualified architect, or a draftsperson to do the house design? If an architect, why not use him/her to do it?

I'm looking to start building very soon, so any first hand experiences are interesting.

 

[Demps]

Pookie/Mr Ed

I am interested in looking into the Project Management route (especially if the company comes with recommendations) - Can You PM me with details of who is involved with Yere projects

Thanks

 

[Duffman]

Just thought I should add my two cents worth into the discussion. I built by direct labour without any previous experience. Went well, very stressful but well worth it in my opinion. The main difference is I didn't have to pay an intermediary builder a fee to do what I did myself. As long as you only employ reputable builders with recommendations I can't see a major problem. I could ensure that everything that went into the house such as insulation etc was of the highest spec as I bought it all myself.
To compare, someone else I know also went direct but used a 'project manager' at a fee of €25,000. Result:
My build - 12 months to completion, living in the house 1 year now & no problems have surfaced - €25000 saved.
Their build - 18 months to construct
i found that the most time-consuming part was the end stages of fitting out the house & this is something that you would usually be heavily involved in anyway whether you went self-build or through a builder.

 

[mickeyg]

Duffman, how much did your build work out at per sq ft. and where are you located?

Thanks

 

[eire1977]

Pookie/Mr Ed,
Can you PM me the details for those Project Management companies. At the moment I'm 50/50 but don't mind spending a few extra bob if we get exactly what we want WITHOUT the hair loss!!!!

 

[Duffman]

Duffman, how much did your build work out at per sq ft. and where are you located?

Thanks

Well there are many different versions of 'per sq ft' - I think the usual one is only to a 'builders finish' which doesn't include fitting out the house. I could only give you the final cost including everything including kitchen, decorating, attic insulation (expensive sheeps wool), wood pellet boiler (more expensive than oil) & even some furniture. Basically a house ready to live in. The overall cost came to €109 per sq ft and I'm in Co. Waterford. One more thing - I finished last March (07) when there was still a housing boom & some builders were hard to come by - which probably pushed up prices as well. You might find them easier to come by at the moment & mayber cheaper as well.

 

[Mr Ed]

Hi everyone,

Just to update those of you who asked..... As it stands I won't be recommending my 'Architectural Technologist/Project Manager/Engineer' (what the hell is an architectural technologist anyway)...

We are STILL waiting for him to complete the house plans!! We're supposed to get them tomorrow, after weeks of him putting us off.

The percolation test was done on the site on Saturday and initial results indicate a very high water table and that we might need a biocycle unit??? I guess it'll end up costing way more than a normal septic tank...

I'm already almost wishing we hadn't bothered. This website is fantastic for information, but the more reading I do, the more confused and/or put-off I am about getting ourselves into this!

:-(

 

[*rose]

Hi Mr Ed

didn't read all the posts above but just wanted to let you know our experience of building by direct labour.

we knocked our ditch st patricks day last year. we started our roof last monday.

we have had a lot of problems along the way ... def be prepared for a LOT of phoning people - we didn't keep on top of this enough.

this resulted in 3 of our upstairs gables coming down during bad weather before christmas ... and took almost 2 months to catch up on where we had been.

just our experience ... you definately save money going by direct labour and have so much freedom as regards altering internal plans etc, but for us has been a MAJOR headache!!!

 

[gally74]

well,

firslty you need some experience in project management,

were building direct for 66 euro a sq foot and its a lot easier than i thought!

 

[Silvergirl]

I didn't know what a soap bar was or the price of a 'bin of muck' was when I started but I do now and I wasn't long learning!

We are half way through our build 2800 sq ft house, had a problem with original block layer and had to get a new one which cost us a 1 week delay - the 2nd tradesman was excellent.

You are builing at a great time. There are loads of trades available at relatively short notice, if your roofer has an accident as Syd mentioned (heaven forbid) he will most likely recommend another. A builder / architect will encounter the same difficulty. We've had recommendations for one trade from the other tradesmens / work colleagues etc and checked into their work and got prices and it's worked out for the most part really well,

It does take time, you need to order materials etc, but not so much that it's impossible. Far from it, you'd be surprised what you get done in a half hour with the golden pages!

We have a one year old and work full time, although my husbands hours are flexible so he does get to catch up with his day job in the evening and call to the site during the day to meet the tradesmen and give them instructions when needed.

Example: our neighbour is using a builder, they started building same time as us, we are slightly ahead of them. His stone mason has now gone awol and ours is finished. It's the luck of the draw.

10K is a lot of money, you are a long time paying it off.

If you have it to spare then go the supervised route. Your builder will be asking you the same questions that the tradesmen would ask you directly, at the end of the day it's your house, and only you can make decisions. Trades will sometimes make recommendations for the best and sometimes to try to take the easy route out, but that's what AAM is for - to verify things!!

Best of luck with it, it's work but so rewarding when you see it flying up out of the ground.

S

 

[Silvergirl]

Sorry forgot to add, we started ours beg Nov 07, and it's finished outside now, house and garage, plastering inside half way complete (upstairs & 2nd floor done), first fixes on plumbing and electrical complete. Hope to be in for Aug, may be a little ambitious but we'll get there. We've entered the slowest phase I believe.
Our engineer is casting an eye over it and we call him the odd time to bounce things off him such as insulation levels, but to be honest AAM has been great too.
If you are in Cork and need any trades contacts PM me.

 

[heyjude]

hi silvergirl, i am also in the early planning stage of building a 2800 square ft house in the cork area and I was just wondering what kind of budget have you set for this build. I am financing this on my own so just wondering what i'm letting myself into!