Public Service Pay Scales & Promotion

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Newbie!

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I recently applied for and was successful at getting a new job in a public service organisation.
I currently am at the top of the scale at say, 60K. I am now jumping two grades and HR have told me that they will only place me at the equivalent point +1 on the next scale ie. 62k. The job has more responsibility and accountability and i wouldn't get an increment until Sept 2012 as i wont be in my role 6months come this Sept.

Has anyone else experienced this and if so, how did they successfully negotiate?
 
Newbie! said:
I currently am at the top of the scale at say, 60K. I am now jumping two grades and HR have told me that they will only place me at the equivalent point +1 on the next scale ie. 62k. The job has more responsibility and accountability and i wouldn't get an increment until Sept 2012 as i wont be in my role 6months come this Sept.
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I don't see anything wrong with this. Seems to be in accordance with standard practices in the Public Sector. I don't think you have any claim to negotiate
 
Guns N Roses said:
I don't see anything wrong with this. Seems to be in accordance with standard practices in the Public Sector. I don't think you have any claim to negotiate
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Really? The responsibilities and accountability attached to the new role is significantly different to the current post and it seems ludicrous to offer a 2k financial incentive to take on this post. I don't think I'm being unreasonable. I didn't expect a major increase but I did think 4-5k was appropriate.
 
You're lucky!

I'm looking at moving from one public sector body into the civil service proper, and am being told that I will be put at the bottom of the salary scale for the grade (rules from the Dept Finance apparently), despite original competitions saying that it would take into account experience and salary.
 
djh said:
You're lucky!

I'm looking at moving from one public sector body into the civil service proper, and am being told that I will be put at the bottom of the salary scale for the grade (rules from the Dept Finance apparently), despite original competitions saying that it would take into account experience and salary.
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Is that not utterly contradictary?
 
Newbie! said:
I recently applied for and was successful at getting a new job in a public service organisation.
I currently am at the top of the scale at say, 60K. I am now jumping two grades and HR have told me that they will only place me at the equivalent point +1 on the next scale ie. 62k. The job has more responsibility and accountability and i wouldn't get an increment until Sept 2012 as i wont be in my role 6months come this Sept.

Has anyone else experienced this and if so, how did they successfully negotiate?
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You'll now get a pay rise every year for the next few years irrespective of your performance.

You should be happy.
 
I thought this uninformed public service bashing was a thing of the past... obviously not...
 
Newbie! said:
I recently applied for and was successful at getting a new job in a public service organisation.
I currently am at the top of the scale at say, 60K. I am now jumping two grades and HR have told me that they will only place me at the equivalent point +1 on the next scale ie. 62k. The job has more responsibility and accountability and i wouldn't get an increment until Sept 2012 as i wont be in my role 6months come this Sept.

Has anyone else experienced this and if so, how did they successfully negotiate?
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My reference point for this is circular 10/71 and I would have thought it would be next highest point plus one. Regardless of what we think our responsibilities are worth, we can only get the scale for the post. Just make sure you get put on the correct point. Might be worth checking with the union. Slim
 
You may have reason to feel aggrieved newbie. I've found also that approaching a union in this situation is counter-productive as they seem to want everyone to stay on basic grades and levels and once you go to the higher grades they treat you as a traitor to the cause.
I a think strong letter (hardcopy by external mail) to HR outlining your case of why you believe you should be placed on a higher increment. You'll have to tailor it to the area that your in, but the more supporting argument you can add the better. Since they have offered you the position they cannot take it away because of the letter. It could result in a stand-off between you and them, with you not filling the position and them not offering it to someone else, until an accommodation is reached. It could be a case of repeatedly badgering them with argument letters until they eventually cave in. This was the route that I would have taken in recent years. In current circumstances it's hard to know how it will play out, but that's my advice.
 
gianni said:
I thought this uninformed public service bashing was a thing of the past... obviously not...
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Gekko said:
You'll now get a pay rise every year for the next few years irrespective of your performance.

You should be happy.
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It's not public service bashing...it's a statement of fact.

Irrespective of Newbie's performance in his or her new role and despite the disastrous condition of the nation's finances, he or she will receive an annual pay rise for the next number of years.

People are free to form their own opinions on the above situation.
 
Slim said:
My reference point for this is circular 10/71 and I would have thought it would be next highest point plus one. Regardless of what we think our responsibilities are worth, we can only get the scale for the post. Just make sure you get put on the correct point. Might be worth checking with the union. Slim
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Not always the case, 10/71 is a formula that compares the 2 pay scales and you fill in the blanks. I have been promoted 3 times and did my own SPOP, never needed the union to do it for me. Two grand increase sounds about right but it's not clear if circ 10/71 SPOP applies here.

I think newbie is lucky to be getting the extra money at all as we have people getting promoted (to fill jobs left vacant as a result of the exit schemes) on paper but no change to pay. So for example a grade VII has the title of General Manager with grades 8's reporting to him.

I like to think I'm a motivated public servant but I don't think I could do that.
 
Gekko said:
It's not public service bashing...it's a statement of fact.

Irrespective of Newbie's performance in his or her new role and despite the disastrous condition of the nation's finances, he or she will receive an annual pay rise for the next number of years.
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This is simply not true.
 
Newbie! said:
Really? The responsibilities and accountability attached to the new role is significantly different to the current post and it seems ludicrous to offer a 2k financial incentive to take on this post. I don't think I'm being unreasonable. I didn't expect a major increase but I did think 4-5k was appropriate.
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Yes! Really.

The difference in responsililty between your current role and your new role is irrelevent.

Your new role has a set pay scale. HR are only allowed to give your current equivalent salary on the new scale plus 1.

The only reason that you are not getting a bigger jump in your salary is because the pay scales of Public Sector jobs at higher level tend to overlap which rules out large jumps in salary. It's equivalent to moving up an increment.

You're wasting your time talking to HR or the Union.
 
Circular 10/71 applies - it is the nearest point plus one. There is no room for negotiation on this unless you had previous experience in another public sector organisation at the grade which could be taken into account. You now have the opportunity to get an increment each year and move up a new payscale and it is this that is of value as you were stuck at the top of your old scale. There are many people int he public service at the moment doing higher grade work, or doing two and three peoples work with no extra pay. If you truly believe that the extra work and responsability is not worth it then turn it down and stay as you are with no increases for the next few years. Public service pay policy is very transparent and the last thing we need is people looking for things outside the norm.
 
Gekko said:
Those on increments automatically get them.
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Automatically?

Haha very funny!!

Have you never heard of performance reviews that must be carried out every year prior to an increment being rewarded or not. These reviews can and do lead to increments being refused.

If however, you have proof that says the opposite, we would all be delighted to see it.
 
RonanC said:
These reviews can and do lead to increments being refused.

If however, you have proof that says the opposite, we would all be delighted to see it.
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No they do not.

If you have proof of public servants who have been denied their annual increment, I'd be delighted to see it.
 
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