Public Sector Retire early

[Early Riser]

Hi Mickey99, Good luck with the campaign but I wouldn't be too optimistic.

The post 2004 entrants are worse off and the new post 2013 entrants are considerably worse off still. So presumably on the basis equity, their entitlements and benefits should be addressed before the pre-2004 people? There is unlikely to be widespread public sympathy for even this - not to mention for what what are generally perceived (rightly or wrongly) as the "gold-plated" pre 2004 public service pensions (Class A or D).

Banks have bankrupted this country and now th public sector are paying for it.

I don't think you will get widespread support for this view on this site - if you look back through posts in some of the other forums. I am not familiar with figures but other posters have estimated that about 20% of our national debt is down to the bank bailouts and the rest to our excess of government spending over incoming taxation. It is true that the public sector have taken a big hit because of this but so have alot of other people - for example, what about all those who lost their private sector jobs and emigratated - the cuts to gov. spending on health, education, etc, etc?

worse again it can affect our final old age pension too, quite substantially...

But your total pension income from your Occupational Pension and State Pension is guaranteed not to be less that the total pension of a Class D person. Also you can work or go abroad at 60 if you wish and claim your Occupational Pension - you just can't claim Jobseeker's as well - which is for 9 months only. But I can't see why you couldn't also claim the Supplementary and go abroad - you don't have to be "signing on" for that. You may miss signing on for PRSI credits but this would be towards possibly enhaning your State Pension (so as to maybe getting more in total than the Class D).

All in all I think it is a very long shot that any improvement in this overall deal will be forthcoming. However, I do think that much clearer information on the scheme, how it works, how to make claims, etc, should be made available to members - and the Unions should be insisting on employers doing this, as well as advising directly themselves.

If you take off all your pension deductions, union subscription, usc, prsi and taxes between your early retirement and pension is about 10K tops...

I'm not following here - are you a pre 2004 entrant? If so, you should be able to retire from 60 without an early retirement deduction?

 

[shelley levine]

This is a very interesting discussion. There are so many misconceptions and preconceptions when it comes to ps pensions and the actual mechanics of same.

Whilst some elements of the schemes differ, anyone with a pre 04 ps pension can’t feel in way aggrieved. The public sector pension levy which will become the Additional Superannuation contribution in January was/is an attempt to create some reality on the contribution rate relative to the liability of payment to the state.

The first cohort that can genuinely feel aggrieved is those in the post 04 scheme. It’s interesting to note in the context of the current discussions around pay parity and pay inequality that this change to pension entitlements was the break into two generations of public sector worker getting different benefits for the same work.

Those in the post 2013 scheme should simply down tools until the government agreed to move all ps workers to career average benefits. Anything you’ve accrued to date is retained and anything going forward is accrued on that basis

 

[Early Riser]

Whilst some elements of the schemes differ, anyone with a pre 04 ps pension can’t feel in way aggrieved. The public sector pension levy which will become the Additional Superannuation contribution in January was/is an attempt to create some reality on the contribution rate relative to the liability of payment to the state.
The first cohort that can genuinely feel aggrieved is those in the post 04 scheme.

Agreed.

There are so many misconceptions and preconceptions when it comes to ps pensions and the actual mechanics of same.

Agreed - but the misconceptions, etc. are understandable due to the lack in provision of simple, clear, straight-forward information - particularly in relation to the Supplementary Pension.

Those in the post 2013 scheme should simply down tools until the government agreed to move all ps workers to career average benefits.

A strike to bring everyone else down to their own level? That is an interesting suggestion!

 

[Mickey99]

Hi Earlyriser,

You said" I'm not following here - are you a pre 2004 entrant? If so, you should be able to retire from 60 without an early retirement deduction?"

I am prr2004, but will be retiring at 60 less with only 25yrs srv. Thus my pension will be pro rata as a class D, I may get the JSB for 9 months but after that I will be as a class D

 

[Mickey99]

Hi Shelley, welcome to the forum. @a

A strike to bring everyone else down to their own level?

Strike action might be our last resort, first thing to do is write to our union rep and then your td, election year is happening soon lets make this an election issues there enough class A public servants to make it happen.

 

[IanC12]

Hi, Mickey99 thank you for raising these concerns, I'm very close to early retirement and I cannot get any information, so I'm very interested n this discussion, but not sure what to do next.

I'm a public servant and need advice, I have a small farm and my wife doesn't work outside the home so there will be two of us depending on it, now I'm worried that if we lose part of my pension we will be worse off, money is tight at the moment and my wife's not keeping well.

Someone else mentioned with Brexit prices could rise substantially afterwards too, so I don't know what to do.

 

[IanC12]

Yes there now tens of thousands of class A public sector staff in very similar positions. For many who aren't keeping well they are unable to find out what there pension will be on retiring early.

Staff with small part time business could be severely impacted, no to mention staff who may want to retire to a life in the sun.

The government needs to setup a pension bureau for the public sector. Apparently the Pension Authority of Ireland does not deal with Public Sector pensions. Nor does Social Welfare, and some public sector employers seem unaware of how class A pensions work, so where can people go for help.

I have sent a few letters/emails to my employers, so hope to learn more soon.

So if anyone has any further info please get in touch.

 

[shelley levine]

A strike to bring everyone else down to their own level? That is an interesting suggestion!

It’s not necessarily a case of being brought down. A portion of the level of savings to be achieved by everyone being on the same system going forward could then be used to increase the level of benefit being accrued per annum for everybody

 

[Mickey99]

I just cant see any benefit from the way the class A pension is being delivered.

Firstly, all monies to be paid are coming from the same pot, regardless. So right away theres no cost advantage.

Secondly the administraion/bureaucracy will be very costly with early retirees taking up time and resources. Early retirees will be standing in line for sw/js benefit along with kids looking for word. How degrading is that!

Thirdly any incentive to take up part time work will be removed, thus substantially reducing the tax take for the state.

Class A staff will work for cash only.

How can this be a good system, when in fact there are now labour shortages in Ireland. Older people with skills should be encouraged to take up part time work and fill this labour shortfall.

Now the state pension age is also getting later, so even more so now than ever, early retirees need to have the option to work part time or move abroad without penalty.

To be fair I think everyone would be in agreement, but its a case of the government passing the legislation to make it happen...

 

[Early Riser]

Now the state pension age is also getting later, so even more so now than ever, early retirees need to have the option to work part time ......... without penalty.

They can work without penalty, whether part-time ot full time. They just can't claim Jobseeker's or Supplementary simultaneously. The Supplementary (available to the public sector only) provides a compensatory payment to public sector retirees who do not qualify for a Social Welfare payment. You get an Occupational Pension based on your contributions to the Occupational Scheme and Social Welfare payments based on your PRSI record. Getting a Supplementary as compensation when you don't qualify for Social Welfare is not a bad deal.

Firstly, all monies to be paid are coming from the same pot, regardless. So right away theres no cost advantage.

Would paying Supplementary and allowing work simultaneously not incentivise retirement at 60 (or earlier), this requiring more Public Service recruitment? That's quite a cost.

Early retirees will be standing in line for sw/js benefit along with kids looking for word. How degrading is that!

You'll meet people of all ages and from all backgrounds at your local Intreo Centre. I am not sure how it is degrading.

 

[Mickey99]

Early Riser now your just being facetious...

the supplementary pension is because a class A is to be paid the same as class D.

Their pension is already reduced because there are retiring early. But your correct getting supplementary is better than nothing but losing it because you work will disincentivise a person too do any other work unless its cash in hand!

There are many parts of the public sector, like the hse where it would suit the government to let them go early without the need to recruit.

Your third point is not the people you'll meet, it that your suppose to reduce your working not be seeking full time work...

I hope I make myself clear.

 

[Early Riser]

Their pension is already reduced because there are retiring early

But it is not being reduced. You said earlier that you will have 25 years service. You pension will be based on this full 25 years without reduction. You can continue to work another 5 years (at least) and have a pension based on the full 30 years. If you retire at 60 it is based on 25 years by your choice.

For a post-2004 person to retire at 60 they would have to take an actuarial reduction on this 25 years of service, plus they would have no entitlement to a Supplementary Pension before 65. Compared to the pre-2004s they are really disadvantaged. Thats not to mention the post-2013s. How do they compare to the Class Ds?

 

[Mickey99]

I agree class A post 2004, are screwed altogether, but it will be another 20 years before they hit their retirement.

Early Riser you either with us not, if not please stay off the discussuon please.

 

[shelley levine]

Mickey99
Would you be happy if you were a D1 prsi payer knowing that an A1 prsi payer could potentially be €67,500 better off in retirement (average supplementary pension will be 10k oacp is 12.7k by a factor of 25)

 

[Early Riser]

Early Riser you either with us not, if not please stay off the discussuon please.

Will do - although if differing opinions are not allowed on the thread does it still qualify as "discussion"?

 

[POC]

Early Riser, I for one am delighted to read your clear explanations. As a pre 2004 public sector worker, I know my pension situation is better than that of the newer entrants. The general public think all public sector workers have gold plated pensions. I would be inclined to keep my head down and thank my lucky stars, rather than agitate for improvements.

 

[RETIRED2017]

I have stayed out of this discussion, but I am going to give a little history lesson as I understand it,
I happen to work for a company who put in a defined benefit scheme back in 1985 for direct workers ,
Our telephonist receptionist happen to be a former public servant (and a very good telephonist receptionist I must say )
the companies aim was to benchmark direct workers to that grade of pay over 2 cycle shift,
when setting the pension the union along with the company would have looked at the public service pension for a telephonist,
It would have reviewed it in 1995 when the changed the public service

The key points back then was the first A1 stamp public servant employed under the new scheme on retirement would finish up getting 2.5% more for the same amount of years as a D stamp,

To do this they had to give the new A1 stamp public servant an increase of 5% to cover the cost of the extra PRSI straight away this gave them 2.5 % more on retirement


When the Prsi stamp dropped to 4% A1 public servants were up another 1%
I have great time for public servants can ye stop the civil war ,

 

[Mickey99]

Hi Retired 2017, welcome to the discussion, but were going off topic.

Were here to talk about tens of thousands of class A public servants who could be retiring very soon.

There is very little information out there for them.

The class A stamp is clearly not all bad by any means and there are in some case clear advantages but it comes as quite a shock to find out that there are some serious strings attached to obtaining your pension for which you thought you were already entitled too.

In my example I am talking about public sector retirees between the ages of 60 and soon to be 68.

These condition place in serious jeopardy a substantial part of your pension.

Even now it is still not a 100% clear what the full extent of risk is too your pension.

This I am investigating and awaiting some news.

For example early retired public employees who live in the North of which there are many have to travel back into the south to sign into social welfare even tho they don't receive social welfare.

Now if that isn't the most dumbest thing then I dont know what is.

So I am looking for retired class A to inform us of their experiences.

We have some contributors who want to turn this into something else!

So let keep on topic here please.

 

[Mickey99]

Hi Shelley

Mickey99
Would you be happy if you were a D1 prsi payer knowing that an A1 prsi payer could potentially be €67,500 better off in retirement (average supplementary pension will be 10k oacp is 12.7k by a factor of 25)

Hi Shelley, I think your wrong there, there may be a small diff of perhaps 2k per annum at age 68, if you liked for another 30years it may add up, not likely to live that long...

Of course between 60 and 68 you could easily earn another 10k per annum with part time work and be way ahead of a class A.

We'd lose our supplementary pension altogether.

 

[RETIRED2017]

How come none of the already retired A1 public servants will tell you the real story, I suspect they know but for some unknown reason are not saying
How come if I ask them they will tell me ,
I did ask them and this is what they said ,
How often do you have to sign on,(once a year until we reach state pension age)
is there a big queue (not at all the send you a time to sign on at )
Do you think it is dumb that people living in the north are sent an appointment to sign on once a year until they reach state pension age (not at all why should they be treated any different ,
don't the get there full pension a little higher than a D stamp wont they also get 2.5% more lump sum,

Retired who is stirring up trouble about public servants (public servants)

If there was a march about public servants A1 pension would you go
I don't understand how I ever had time to go to work since I retired don't mind go marching ,