Public sector pensions should be switched to Defined Contribution

Brendan Burgess said:
Let's be absolutely clear. I want to see fair and generous pensions for all the public service.

If we have a scheme at present that is exploiting low paid employees and "spoling" high paid employees, then my scheme would redress that.

The public service, low paid or high paid, should get the same generous defined contribution pension as any other generous employer offers. No more and no less.
Brendan
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It would be interesting so to see a breakdown of pensions in the CS/PS.
As the majority of staff are on low-medium wages and yes, a few high profile examples of spectacular pensions make for great headlines in the papers, how much would your proposed scheme actually save v's the immediate pain of implementing such changes?
 
Does anyone know what the short term cost to the State would be by doing what Brendan proposes?
 
Purple said:
Does anyone know what the short term cost to the State would be by doing what Brendan proposes?
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Blood on the streets, rebellion, looting, anarchy....

I think it will be a good spectator sport on TV tonight. Brendan is a brave man indeed. Pat Kenny is particularly strong on pensions. Should be a laugh.
 
Dan Murray said:
I think it will be a good spectator sport on TV tonight. Brendan is a brave man indeed. Pat Kenny is particularly strong on pensions.
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It's not about pensions tonight.

It's about housing.

But I will be a lone voice on that as well. It's hard work challenging the consensus view, but someone has to do it.

Brendan
 
Brendan Burgess said:
It's not about pensions tonight.

It's about housing.

But I will be a lone voice on that as well. It's hard work challenging the consensus view, but someone has to do it.

Brendan
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I think I'm looking forward to that even more. Will you actually use the word ghetto or wait until someone else does? Probably best if you get in there first IMHO.
 
If you can earn more in the private sector perhaps contracting, and get broadly similar conditions. A change in pension would remove a lot of the reason to stay in the public sector. Especially for in demand skillets or professions.

Probably why it's awash with contractors and outsourcing.
 
AlbacoreA said:
If you can earn more in the private sector perhaps contracting, and get broadly similar conditions. A change in pension would remove a lot of the reason to stay in the public sector. Especially for in demand skillets or professions.

Probably why it's awash with contractors and outsourcing.
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I for one can confirm this- if the pension changes in the PS/CS, I'm outta here
 
AlbacoreA said:
If you can earn more in the private sector perhaps contracting, and get broadly similar conditions. A change in pension would remove a lot of the reason to stay in the public sector. Especially for in demand skillets or professions.

Probably why it's awash with contractors and outsourcing.
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Hi Albacore

I don't fully follow what you are saying here. Are you saying that if you are an IT professional, you are better off in the public sector because the pension scheme is so generous?

But why does this make it awash with contractors? Surely they don't get the public sector pension benefits?

Brendan
 
Brendan Burgess said:
I don't fully follow what you are saying here. Are you saying that if you are an IT professional, you are better off in the public sector because the pension scheme is so generous?

But why does this make it awash with contractors? Surely they don't get the public sector pension benefits?

Brendan
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You are looking at it from the wrong direction. Why would you be an IT professional in the public/civil service when you can earn multiples of your salary in private contract work?
 
He's saying that the only reason some people stay in the Civil / Public service despite being able to earn much more money in the private sector is because of the pensions. Decimate the pensions and there will be no reason for people to stay and result in even more outsourcing.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Hi Albacore

I don't fully follow what you are saying here. Are you saying that if you are an IT professional, you are better off in the public sector because the pension scheme is so generous?

But why does this make it awash with contractors? Surely they don't get the public sector pension benefits?

Brendan
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Well I can't speak for Albacore (any more than you can speak for the Irish taxpayer ;) ), but I'll give you my understanding of his post:

Contractors and outsourcing may be a false economy and actually cost more than employing employees.

Some people will sacrifice increased earning potential via contracting, in return for an employment package including a high degree of security and a pension.

If you substantially alter the package on offer to employees, by tinkering with the pension, it stands to reason that the best employees (who have the best prospects elsewhere) will find that they can't justify staying put. They then jump ship and you find yourself having to go to the market to procure that expertise, and may end up paying more.

A recent example I can think of is Revenue struggling to retain and obtain applications from suitably experienced people for roles in relation to transfer pricing. I'm not sure how effective outsourcing would be in that area, as you'd have Revenue going to one or more of the Big 4, who'd then be straddling both sides of the fence in advising both the tax administration and the rest of their clientele...
 
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Pretty suprising during the debate last night that neither Brendan nor Christy Burke knew the actual Jobseekers payment - its €193 weekly not €198 for over 26's.
Maybe both have knowledge of the next budget !
 
Páid said:
You are looking at it from the wrong direction. Why would you be an IT professional in the public/civil service when you can earn multiples of your salary in private contract work?
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torblednam said:
Contractors and outsourcing may be a false economy and actually cost more than employing employees.

Some people will sacrifice increased earning potential via contracting, in return for an employment package including a high degree of security and a pension.
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In my experience, technical staff in both the public sector and larger private sector organisations over time tend to move away from technical areas into areas like project managers, managers, or Subject Matter Experts (SMEs) thus leaving a natural gap for technical skills.

Also, often the requirement is for a particular skill set, for a short duration so it doesn't make sense in a lot of cases to higher someone on a full-time basis.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Hi Albacore

I don't fully follow what you are saying here. Are you saying that if you are an IT professional, you are better off in the public sector because the pension scheme is so generous?

But why does this make it awash with contractors? Surely they don't get the public sector pension benefits?

Brendan
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As the others have said. You would be removing on of the key incentives to work in the PS. Especially for people with an in demand skill set. I wasn't thinking of just IT workers. We have a problem with retaining Medical professionals also. Must be the same across many areas. I was just making an observation about contractors and outsourced projects. If you can't attract or retain staff then the work goes outside. It may be that's just the way it has to be. The pension is just too expensive. But outsourcing and contracting will have a huge cost inflation, which will be hard to quantify. It may even move these jobs out of Ireland.
 
Hi Albacore

Pay people market salaries with generous defined contribution pension schemes.

Raise and lower those salaries to attract the right people.



Brendan
 
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