Public sector pay rise

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so biased its unbelievable
 
no, they are pay rises. Just because they are not called that does not mean they are not payrises. Do the staff impacted get paid more as a result?. Yes = Payrise
and the wage cut from 2008 called a pension levy was probably not a wage cut either?. Here we go with the basher ps experts who do not know what they are talking about, Never happy unless bashing, try living on a Clerical Officers salary or pension for that matter if you worked in private industry and ps. the cats on here mostly in the 100,000 bracket who keep vilifying ordinary workers being paid peanuts after decades of work should try living on the clerical ps salary.
 
The myopic journalists conveniently bypass the cuts from 2008 the levy the paycuts the additional hours. Groundhog day I am back to 2008 salary in 2022 yipee and my eyes water when I see the salaries of people on here who are bashing the massive salaries of e.g. clerical staff who can hope to work for maybe 19,000 and it will take them 20 years to get to 41,000. but thats probably too much for private industry to pay and next its the pensions are too much, with the Additional Superannuation and pension levy civil/public etc paid 14% extra since 2009 and in many instance were not entitled to pensions and still had to pay the pension levy.
 
The myopic journalists conveniently bypass the cuts from 2008 the levy the paycuts the additional hours. Groundhog day I am back to 2008 salary in 2022 yipee
There were large pay increases for State employees in the years leading up to 2008. That should be noted for context.
State employees on €19k aren’t paying a 14% pension levy. Those on higher salaries are and I agree that those people are under paid for the work they do but clerical level employees aren’t. Not by international standards or benchmarked against their counterparts in the non State sector.

Do people really work for 20 years without getting a promotion? Where I work there are no increments so if you are hired on minimum wage then that’s where you stay unless you get better at your job. Then you’ll get a pay rise but if it’s the same job then you’ll never really see big pay increases.
€41k plus a state pension is above the average industrial wage. If you are doing the same job why would you expect a pay increase?
 
so biased its unbelievable
Do you not think they did a good job building new structures during Covid? I think they did a great job.

From your reaction to my previous post you seem to think that teachers pay should be increased until they can afford a house. Do you not see the knock on effect doubling or tripling teachers pay would have?
Do you think that would be fiscally responsible?
 
. Do you not see the knock on effect doubling or tripling teachers pay would have?
Do you think that would be fiscally responsible?
I don't think anyone sensible would advocate this. Making housing more affordable for essential key workers would be a better approach. We are loosing 5 teachers this year from a total of 14. They are all leaving the city because of unaffordable housing.
 
That’s happening in every sector. If we are going to help people working in essential sectors then we will of course we’ll have to start with sewage workers, bin men (or are they bin people now?), supermarket employees, delivery drivers and all the people who are much more essential than teachers or nurses or doctors or people like me.
 
Making housing more affordable for essential key workers would be a better approach.
I think there is merit in this.

Housing costs in Dublin are materially and sustainably higher than the rest of the country.

There should be some recognition of this - particularly for high-skilled roles.
 
I think there is merit in this.

Housing costs in Dublin are materially and sustainably higher than the rest of the country.

There should be some recognition of this - particularly for high-skilled roles.
In the UK there's a London allowance for many State employees working in London. It's reasonable that something similar could be brought in here. It's nonsense to suggest that anyone's wages should be increased until they can afford to buy a house. That's a recipe for 1970's style inflation and a 1980's style recession.
 
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But the main cost of living difference inside and outside Dublin is housing.
Yes I agree with you. I was pointing out that increasing a teachers salary to €90k so that they can afford a house in Dublin is a really stupid idea as it will have a massive knock-on effect on wages across the economy and result in double digit inflation. It will also not make housing more affordable as prices will just increase in line with those pay increases. It's a really stupid idea.
It's also true that essential workers (bin men, water treatment plant employees etc) were never on high wages. The other essential group, the people that maintain the electricity network, are relatively well paid. The next most important group, the "blue light" services, are also relatively well paid.
 
all the people who are much more essential than teachers or nurses or doctors or people like me.
I am not sure any society would function for very long without nurses, doctors or teachers! I agree that the other categories of workers you mentioned (bin workers, supermarket staff etc) are also essential but they are more likely to already qualify for state housing support by because of their low wage.
 
I am not sure any society would function for very long without nurses, doctors or teachers!
Of course it wouldn't. We'd struggle more without Farmers and Truck Drivers though. We'd also find it hard to manage if we flushed the toilet and nothing happened. That would cause more of a problem than the absence of doctors or nurses.
Teachers wouldn't be missed for months. Lawyers wouldn't be missed for years. Bankers would be missed though since we need money to function.

Most jobs can be done without but they are good to have around. We know that we can manage without restaurants, pubs or musicians but they do make life better.

If we talking about "essential workers" as people who are needed in the short term to keep society functioning then the people who keep the lights on and the water running come first, closely followed by the people who keep food on the shelves of the shops. The rest of us are a distant second.
 
But a short term view isn't helpful. Housing is a long term need and we need health and education staff in our cities if society is to function. Cities like London have already identified key workers so I am sure we could follow their template for workers who have to be in cities and are in need of affordable housing options. Many other jobs can be done remotely but this isn't an option for frontline workers.
 
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Any info on the disparity between London and the rest of the UK that justifies a London allowance, and what is the relative difference to the Dublin rest Ireland, disparity? I would think its not as severe in Ireland?
 
I'm not bashing the public sector . All I'm asking for is openess, honesty and transparency around public sector pay rises and not the use of semantics. Plenty of public sector workers deserve to be paid more, I've never said they didn't

As for living on a Clerical workers wage, try doing a minimum wage job for a while where you can be sacked or laid off (as many were during Covid)) as opposed to having a job for life. I'm sure most of the cleaners, shop workers, warehouse operatives etc would love a Clerical Workers job and salary
 
Any info on the disparity between London and the rest of the UK that justifies a London allowance, and what is the relative difference to the Dublin rest Ireland, disparity? I would think its not as severe in Ireland?
when I lived in London and worked for one of the banks there, we had a big city allowance policy where depending on where you worked, a fixed, non-pensionable payment was added to your wage. In London, it was around 15% of the average staff salary whereas when I worked in Manchester for a year, it was around 5%. It got reviewed and updated annually and almost every city in the UK was covered to some degree.

There would be merit in such a scheme here as the cost of living in the GDA would be far higher then in e.g Leitrim.
 
No different from lots of other people that are necessary for a city to function. The whole "essential worker" thing is a bit cringey. It's not as bad as people who refer to themselves as Frontline Workers but it's up there.

The people who keep the power and water flowing and keep food on the shelves are the most essential. I suppose refuse collection would come next.
People in combat with nobody in front of them except enemy soldiers who are trying to kill them are on the front line. Every other use of the term is just hyperbole.

With public transport and roads and cars and such like there's no need for anyone working in the city to actually live in the city.
 
I have worked in poorly paid jobs and I don't have a job for life, that's an outmoded belief. As it happens and I can be let go from my job. You seem to have a bias and it comes across as a bitterness and it it's pretty blatant at this stage. Why are you so fascinated by P.S. Why not go after the high earners in PS/CS . Many of my self employed friends and family seem to feel hard done by by comparison to public servants. On the outside people think its a golden pension and sitting with your feet up - that's only for the upper echelons. C.S P.S language is based on British Civil Service going back to the 1900's.

Yes much of it the language around pay is semantics I have to agree with you there, For Example Pension Related Deduction - which is a substantial levy a deduction which does not go towards a pension.
I have spent years trying to decipher their language and then they change it or update another circular i.e. secondment and nobody can decipher what the circular is saying. I probably wont ever understand it. I have worked in private sector, supermarkets, book shops, any job I could get, poorly paid manufacturing jobs. I worked two jobs for years when I was in UK C.S. as the wages were so low.
 
The upper levels of the civil service are underpaid compared to private sector employees if similar qualifications and experience and responsibilities.

The lower grades are actually overpaid compared to private sector equivalents. But they keep increase lower grades at a higher percentage than higher grades for political and voting reasons.
 
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