Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come from?

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Yes, but you could have higher paid Clerical Staff suffering more than lower paid Executive Staff. It just is not a fair solution.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

This option isn’t equitable. People have different increment dates so if they decide to implement this from 1st January what about people who received an increment on the 31st December – they will not suffer any loss. Then there are staff who are on their max for 10+ years.


If it is implemented for the full financial year the person who gets an increment on 31st Dec won't get the next one on next 31st Dec next year.

I would have thought freezing increments for a year was a no brainer to be honest (and I say this as someone who is mid way through the Grade 3 scale). The increments will still come, albeit a bit delayed.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Freezing increments is one thing - but it doesn't help with the deficit now, today.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Sandrat is talking about reversing increments, not freezing them.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Freezing increments is different to going back an increment.

Not an option I'd like personally as I'm due my last one next year but this option is workable.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Both I would have thought, no piont reversing them if they are not then frozen for a specified time period. Where I am ( Would be deemed Semi State) we have taken paycuts of between 5-15% for all staff above €35K and all increments have been frozen (indeffinatley) for those above €35K.

This was agreed by staff and Unions endorssed. When things change paycuts will be reversed and the suspension of increments will be lifted. We have also gone through an early retirement drive plus a 2 year career break option was open to staff. Even so this may not have been enough and the possibility of some redundancies is on the cards. But at least staff gave it an effort to try and ensure that jobs were protected as much as possible.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Yes, but you could have higher paid Clerical Staff suffering more than lower paid Executive Staff. It just is not a fair solution.

No-one seemed to think it inequitable when people got increments of differing sizes.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Apparently they were worked out and very finely tuned by Dept of Finance to ensure that you wouldn't have a situation where a more junior grade higher up their scale could be earning more than their Manager who was lower down their scale. The figures weren't just pulled out of a hat.
Also, as eveyone was on the same scale you had either already got a bigger increment or were going to get one in the future. Picking a moment in time and saying that at that very stage a reverse increment is going to operate is different. Even if you get it back years down the road, you're still being asked to take a bigger cut now than other colleagues who might be earning more than you, with no idea as to when (or even if - if they reform the PS, how do we know what's going to happen with increments) you will recoup that loss.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

I'm not saying that but maybe the people I know are not the people who vote for this kind of ill advised industrial action when the public are already made to hate us enough with the private vs public sector debates in the media.

In fairness Sandrat, I work with and know a huge variety of people in the Public Service. Some voted 'no' and a lot voted 'yes', but I wouldn't think there was a particular 'kind' of person who voted for the strike. There were all kinds of situations and considerations that people took into account. Also, I think the media hate campaign actually annoyed a lot of people who had voted 'no' to strikes last year into voting 'yes' this year.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Apparently they were worked out and very finely tuned by Dept of Finance to ensure that you wouldn't have a situation where a more junior grade higher up their scale could be earning more than their Manager who was lower down their scale. The figures weren't just pulled out of a hat.

No don't think it's that. 10th point Clerical Officer grade III is €35,860 while the 2nd pont of a Grade IV - Asst Staff Officer is €31,996. Plenty of grade IV's here supervising group of grade III's.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Yes, but you could have higher paid Clerical Staff suffering more than lower paid Executive Staff. It just is not a fair solution.
Well then what is fair ?

Straight percentage cut isn't fair.
Low paid cut more than high paid isn't fair.
High paid cut more than low paid isn't fair.

Any suggestions as to what IS acceptable (apart from payrises)?
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Well, I was talking to a friend of mine who works on salaries and she said that was part of the thinking behind the differences in increment sizes. Maybe what she meant was that the overlap between grades couldn't go beyond a certain amount.

Sorry, I'm replying to Becky's post.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Well then what is fair ?

Straight percentage cut isn't fair.
Low paid cut more than high paid isn't fair.
High paid cut more than low paid isn't fair.

Any suggestions as to what IS acceptable (apart from payrises)?

When did I say a high paid cut more than low paid isn't fair? When I talked about 'higher paid' clerical staff I meant higher up 'their' pay scale but not earning as much as a lower paid executive person.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Well, I was talking to a friend of mine who works on salaries and she said that was part of the thinking behind the differences in increment sizes. Maybe what she meant was that the overlap between grades couldn't go beyond a certain amount.

Sorry, I'm replying to Becky's post.

Actually I'd say it may have been the case in the past. The benchmarking changed the differenes between scales as lower paid grades mainly got a lower percentage increase.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Well then what is fair ?

Straight percentage cut isn't fair.
Low paid cut more than high paid isn't fair.
High paid cut more than low paid isn't fair.

Any suggestions as to what IS acceptable (apart from payrises)?

A 10% cut in the workforce would be better. Should be targeted at areas where there are cuts in programmes thus meaning the people working on them have no work to do. Should also be targeted at those areas who have lost the run of themselves in recent years and need reform.

We could also do with a lot of mergers of local authorities - not ala HSE where you retain the same staff and hire more to manage them. Have so that one local authority takes over the workload of another and maybe gets a small increase in frontline staff and all the staff at the other are made redundant.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

A 10% cut in the workforce would be better. Should be targeted at areas where there are cuts in programmes thus meaning the people working on them have no work to do. Should also be targeted at those areas who have lost the run of themselves in recent years and need reform.

We could also do with a lot of mergers of local authorities - not ala HSE where you retain the same staff and hire more to manage them. Have so that one local authority takes over the workload of another and maybe gets a small increase in frontline staff and all the staff at the other are made redundant.

How do you decide which area gets the increased frontline staff?
 
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