PRTB registered - now cannot evict Tenant!

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NHG

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My parents have a number of rental properties and have never had a problem over the years. They have the properties registered with the PRTB and everything is done propperly.

Last week (11/4) they had an incident with a tennant who threatened my dad verbally (and what he would do to him with a shotgun)- there were witnesses present at the time.

They immediatly contacted their solicitor who advised my dad to report this incident to the gardai which he did and the solicitor sent out a 7 day eviction order to the tennant and he was supposed to be out today.

The solicitor has just rang to say that the tennant got onto the PRTB and as he has lived in the premises for over 6mth he has an automatic 4year lease and cannot be evicted unless under grounds for public disorder and if this is the case he has to have 42 days notice - Does the Landlord have any rights anymore!

Maybe we are all better off not registering with PRTB and just pay our taxes etc.

Another nice little addition - you need to be registered with PRTB in order to claim Interest relief on your mortgage for your rented property !

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
 
Re: PRTB REgistered - now cannot evict Tennant!

Do your parents have a lease in place? If the tenant has signed a lease, then its provisions, rather than the part four tenancy conditions, will apply. It's at the very least wise to have a lease in place.

Failing to register with the PRTB would not have made the current situation any easier for your parents as landlords: in fact, they'd have got the same line from the PRTB along with a sizable bill.

The Gardaí should also be kept informed - and your parents should set down an account of what led up to the incident (I assume there was a build up as threats of the nature you suggest don't usually come out of nowhere).
 
Re: PRTB REgistered - now cannot evict Tennant!

NHG said:
The solicitor has just rang to say that the tennant got onto the PRTB and as he has lived in the premises for over 6mth he has an automatic 4year lease and cannot be evicted unless under grounds for public disorder and if this is the case he has to have 42 days notice - Does the Landlord have any rights anymore!
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Did the tenant sign a lease for the tenancy? The automatic lease really only applies if there is no other lease already in place.

EDIT: Post crossed with dreamerb
 
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Re: PRTB REgistered - now cannot evict Tennant!

No there was no lease in place - yes the verbal abuse was totally out of the blue
 
Re: PRTB REgistered - now cannot evict Tennant!

or they could sell the house or give it to a family member
 
Re: PRTB REgistered - now cannot evict Tennant!

cerberos said:
or they could sell the house or give it to a family member
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Even if they do, the same notice period applies. And even if there were a lease in place, tenants and landlords cannot contract out of the legal minimum notice periods, no matter what the lease says.
 
Re: PRTB REgistered - now cannot evict Tennant!

So give him 42 days notice asap. Sounds like a better solution to wait rather than stir up more trouble.
 
Re: PRTB REgistered - now cannot evict Tennant!

gonk said:
And even if there were a lease in place, tenants and landlords cannot contract out of the legal minimum notice periods, no matter what the lease says.
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I hadn't realised that, and thought the existence of a fixed term lease prevented the part 4 conditions applying. The legislation is not particularly clear on the matter, but you do appear to be correct; I wonder why, then, standard leases still seek to impose different terms?

On the OP's question, I refer them to section 67 [broken link removed]
and sections 16-17 of the Act which allows seven days' notice for anti-social behaviour, defined in terms which would appear to cover the incident as described: see [broken link removed]

I doubt, somehow, that the tenant explained the full background to the PRTB! I'm surprised that the solicitor didn't discuss these provisions with the OP's family, but it seems that the seven days' notice on foot of anti-social behaviour applies. That said, tenant appears to be notifying this to the PRTB as a dispute, and OP's parents may unfortunately have to go through the investigation procedure.
 
Re: PRTB REgistered - now cannot evict Tennant!

Dreamerb said:
I hadn't realised that, and thought the existence of a fixed term lease prevented the part 4 conditions applying. The legislation is not particularly clear on the matter, but you do appear to be correct; I wonder why, then, standard leases still seek to impose different terms?
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Probably two reasons. Firstly lazy landlords, estate agents and solicitors keep using the same standard lease agreement which they've used for donkey's years, and secondly maybe they hope the tenant won't realise the relevant terms are actually void and unenforceable.

In the OP's specific case, though, I agree with you that they have a very good justification for the seven day notice. The behaviour described would amount to common assault.
 
Agree with the poster that said to issue notice immediately. Regardless of other issues, you need this guy out of your life.
 
Getting a hearing will take a few months but in the case of threats to life etc then your case will be fast-tracked. Serve the 42 day notice and if they overhold contact the PTRB for dispute resolution mention about the threats and get the garda's details.
 
But its only 7 days notice required on grounds of anti-social behaviour - the solicitor served a 7 days 'Notice to Quit' issued yesterday and personally delivered (by our solicitor or his representative) going the anti-social behavioural route. I received the forms for the prtb and are just waiting to see what happens this week.

Fingers crossed he will move out this time. Thanks to everybody for the replies and advise.
 
Just to up-date this thread, My dad today received a express post letter from the PRTB (i assume my mum's will arrive in a day or two) as follows:

Dear Mr ......

I refer to your application to the Private residential Tenancies Board for dispute resolution services and to tou letter of 18th December 2007 (enclosed).

Please confirm in writing within 10 days of the date of issue of this letter if you wish to proceed with your dispute. If we do not receive a reply within this perio, we will assume that you no longer wish to pursue the matter any further and the Board will deem your application withdrawn.

Yours sincerely,

.....................

Firstly, this has taken 16mths to get to the stage of asking if my parents still want to proceed with this case, I wonder how long more it would take to get a date for the hearing if they did need to continue with this case considering it fell into their catagorie of '7 Day Anti-Social Behavour
Problem' - what kind of a service is this that we are paying for.

Thankfully the tenant has since left and the Gardai have dealt with the same problem in court and my parents now have lovely tenants in the same house since the week after that tenant moved out with no problems at all, so naturally they won't be continuing with this process with the PRTB.

Also the letter that they mentioned as being enclosed was not enclosed.
 
Utter incompetence. How are landlords going to get a fair deal from the muppet show that is the PRTB though? You have to register to claim interest relief. Maybe if ALL landlords stopped registering and stopped paying tax until the matter was sorted, like people refused to pay domestic rates and that was binned. We're not even looking to stop paying, just want to pay for something aht works. A guy threatens a landlord with a shotgun and it takes the PRTB 16 months to do anything, probably 2 years to evict. JOKE.
 
murphaph said:
Utter incompetence. How are landlords going to get a fair deal from the muppet show that is the PRTB though? You have to register to claim interest relief. Maybe if ALL landlords stopped registering and stopped paying tax until the matter was sorted, like people refused to pay domestic rates and that was binned. We're not even looking to stop paying, just want to pay for something aht works. A guy threatens a landlord with a shotgun and it takes the PRTB 16 months to do anything, probably 2 years to evict. JOKE.
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Totally agree with your sentiment. I still am awaiting a request from the PRTB since Jan last year to deal with a tenant!

Protect Rebel Tenancies Board.
 
I have to agree with you Murphaph & Cayne. The PRTB is a joke, i registered with them because i had to and 4yrs later they are looking for me to register again as they assume the tenancy has changed and lasped ????? Once you register surley you dont need to do it every 4 years, as my tenants sister was now my tenant they charged me twice for the re-register & new tenant name, its a money making racket and landlords are sitting down and taking it but not getting any joy from them regarding disputes. Another thing that really annoyed me was if i had a query they ask that you refere to Frequently asked questions rather then contact them as they are too busy ( obiviously counting all the landlords money that they recieve)
Has anyone any idea what they do????
 
I agree, i am surprised though in this current climate that nobody has questioned the government on what this agency actually does other then report landlords to the revenue, where is the money going that they collect?? Who is accountable for their expenditure??
One thing the celtic tiger did is allowed ordinary people become landlords mainly like myself to set myself a pension for retirement through buying to let properties, now as we are all having to question costs and reduce rents we need to point the finger at this board and ask them what are they doing to protect the Landlord.
 
I agree that the PRTB seem to be a bit of a joke. I registered a tenancy last October and have still not received a registration number - in this case the tenant is anxious to get a number as it is needed to get a parking permit. We have a short term solution for the parking problem but it is not ideal. Both myself and the tenant phone the prtb every few weeks but they either don't answer or we're told it is being "processed".
And here's a bigger joke - Labours Ciaran Lynch is proposing that private rental deposits should be placed in a central state fund with an independent assessment of whether they would be paid back to tenants. You guessed it... it is proposed that the deposit is paid to the prtb!!! Can you imagine how that system would work?? It would like forcing a baby to run before its managed the art of sitting up...
 
You mean to say you get a registeration number the only acknowledgement i got was seeing the payment on my credit card statement, i couldnt call them cause they told me not to as they are too busy.
are we going to see down the line the same debacle as happened to tax payers money being squandered in FAS, nobody in these government agencies or boards are made accountable for monies spent they are only given early retirement with lump sums.... enough is enough!
 
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