proposed fox hunting ban in the UK..

S

sinead76

Guest
In my opinion, this is the best idea the UK have had in a long time and for once I wish Ireland would follow in their example.

Does anyone think there's any chance of this ever happening?
 
I think the fox hunting ban relates only to England and Wales. A ban is already in force in Scotland and there are no plans to introduce a ban in Northern Ireland.

The ban includes fox hunting and hare coursing.

My view is that these are traditional rural persuits and a ban should be introduced when and if it is supported by a majority of rural dwellers.

ajapale
 
My view is that these are traditional rural persuits and a ban should be introduced when and if it is supported by a majority of rural dwellers.

The problem with that ajapale is that rural dwellers who support hunting (who work in it and hunt themselves) are hardly going to ever want the ban.
So (as I see it), it comes down to an issue of cruelty really.

Many solutions (that I'm aware of) have been suggested in England, including hunting by scent. The only part of the hunt they lose is the kill - which is vicious and unnecessary. I'd fully support a ban myself.
 
rural dwellers.....

I live in a rural area where hunting takes place by a small minority (mostly from outside the general area) who take over a tiny village, block roads and tresspass on lands of farmers who are against these hunts. I think a majority in my area would support a ban. Myself, I don't care how rude or nice the hunting people are (most of them rude and obnoxious) what they are doing is cruel and should be banned. I also read somewhere that the resulting decline in the number of foxes in the countryside has caused a huge increase in the rat population, but i don't know how true this is
 
Re: rural dwellers.....

I live in a rural area where hunting takes place by a small minority (mostly from outside the general area) who take over a tiny village, block roads and tresspass on lands of farmers who are against these hunts. I think a majority in my area would support a ban

That's interesting Sinead and perhaps if the same is true in England then what ajapale is saying makes sense - that the majority of rural people would actually support the ban. I wonder has any polling been done either here or in england concerning this.
 
I find myself ambivalent about this issue. While I have no interest in hunting anything I think that the ban on fox hunting has arisen more out a class issue in UK rather than genuine concern for foxes. If we (and we will have to debate it before long) ban fox hunting, will we proceed to ban angling and any other form of hunting? How cruel is it to breed pheasants only to blow them out of the sky? Is it cruel to raise cattle and then slaughter them so I can have a steak, burger or some leather shoes? Same for chickens etc etc. I don't like the idea of a fox being torn to bits by hounds or harried to a fright filled death, but it is probably a limited number of kills anyway! How much do fish suffer when hooked and played? They are not pretty or cute, I suppose - and, maybe more importantly - angling in the UK is as much a working class pursuit as anything else!

Slim 8)
 
Hi Slim, I too am ambivalent about the topic.

If fox hunting is a class thing surely hare coursing is not.

I think that we must get a concencus first among rural dwellers berfore a ban is implemented.

ajapale
 
I think that we must get a concencus first among rural dwellers berfore a ban is implemented.
Click to expand...

So we should have got consensus from smokers before introducing the smoking ban? There is a distinct different between fox-hunting and most of the other examples you give (pheasant shooting, chicken/beef farming) - the duration & extent of the fear & pain caused to the animal - for no other benefit than "sport". If you want to control foxes, shoot them or poison them humanely. If you want sport, do a drag hunt (no - not wearing drag).

There is no good reason for fox-hunting.
 
I believe a compromise can be made. Ban fox hunting, but introduce a new blood sport, called toff-hunt. The people who used to hunt foxes, can now hunt each other, in teams. They are allowed to use dogs to maul each other to death.

TV3 could film it, and the resultant revenue would easily cover TV Licencing. Taxes from betting on toff-hunts could also ease the burden on normal people.
 
Proposed fox hunting ban in the Ireland..

I'm a bit concerned about this new brand of democracy that Ajapale is proposing. I think I understand his logic but trying to segregate society to get your own way has been tried and failed. I would be game set and match for NIMBYism only you poll the locals every time you need something done.

Mr. Arch E O'Logy how do you feel about the M3 Motorway?

or

Barron Land-Scape, Ok if we plonk an incinerator here in the next field?

Think about AJP, you've just re-written all the rules

As for the moralising, I have just one question "is it worse that they do it for sport?"
 
Re: Proposed fox hunting ban in the Ireland..

Im going to sleep on this one.

Does any one have any comments on hare coursing? Is it the same moral question as fox hunting?

Indicently everyone seems to assume that there is a concencus among rural dwellers that is pro fox hunting. I dont know if this is neccessarily true.

ajapale
 
Re: Proposed fox hunting ban in the Ireland..

"Indicently everyone seems to assume that there is a concencus among rural dwellers that is pro fox hunting. I dont know if this is neccessarily true"

everyone eh? Er where exacty do you see this in the thread so far?

BTW I want to set up the free State of Lyracrmpaun butI'm only going to ask the Lyra land owners OK?... I'll let you know how the voting goes... off to canvass now


Nat
 
Re: Proposed fox hunting ban in the Ireland..

I am for once in total agreement with Ajapale , Rainyday et al ,and quote Oscar Wildes description of fox-hunting as my guiding light... " The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable"

As regards hare coursing , how wopuld the dog owners feel if their dog was coursed by a lion or tiger?
 
Lyracrumpane

Lyracrumpane 980 acres in the Barony of Clanmaurice and the parish of Kilfeighny in the postal district of Listowel

www.rootsweb.com/~irlker/townl.html

Hi Natchessmen,

While thare are plenty of foxes in Lyracrumpane the only way to conduct a hunt would be on donkey back because of the boggy and mountainy terrain.

Hi AAMers
Ive been giving some thought to my suggestion that this is rural issue for rural dwellers to work out.

First of all the "smoke in the workplace" ban. The constituency here is every one who has an enclosed workplace. In Ireland we chose to deal with this at a national level. In the US however every city or county excercises local democracy to decide. In the UK it looks like Scotland will be considered as a unit but in England certain cities Liverpool for example may decide. But I digress.

Fox Hunting and Hare Coursing are rural persuits conducted in the country side in the main by rural people. Personally Im inclined to come down on the anti-hunting side. I dont think it will take very much to convince a majority of rural people to come out against it. But I do think it is worth our while making an effort to bring rural people along with the rest of us urbanites.

In England & Wales the sight of a huge urban majority of MPs passing a measure that impacts only on a small minority of rural people strikes me as somewhat anti democratic.

ajapale
 
Adopt a fox

I don't consider myself pro fox hunting, but as I see it far too many urban/city people tend to jump on the anti fox hunting bandwagon in a fickle fashion. For all these people I would ask, would you adopt a fox to save it from a gruesome fate ? Would you have that fox running around your back yard "playing" with your kids or pets ?

Foxes do need to be controlled that's a fact and they have no natural predators. Fox hunting is in most peoples eyes the wrong way to do this, but in fairness are we all losing our reason by bumping the welfare of the fox up to such a high level of importance. In the grand scheme of things it's less then a hundred foxes a year. All this energy and passion invested in saving these foxes would surely be better spent pursuing maybe a human welfare cause.

There is no good reason for fox hunting. True.
But then again there is no good reason for many things that happen in society ...
- speeding and driving which causes road deaths
- going out and getting bollixed drunk at the weekend
- smoking 20 cigarettes a day
- taking drugs
- polluting the planet in any number of ways
- children playing computer games 4 hours a day instead of playing in the fresh air
- adults buying computer games for their children
- crimes against humanity
... and I'd better stop there !

Of course these points are in the abstract and are wide open for criticism here ... so don't all bite back at once now !!!
 
Re: Adopt a fox

Hi harto1,

For all these people I would ask, would you adopt a fox to save it from a gruesome fate ? Would you have that fox running around your back yard "playing" with your kids or pets ?

Saving a fox from a gruesome fate does not have to involve (as I see it) adopting it. That's a pretty fatalistic view of fox-hunting...ie, it either gets hunted and killed or you have the option of adopting it!
Not hunting it in the first place would seem to be the better option for saving it from this fate.

In the grand scheme of things it's less then a hundred foxes a year. All this energy and passion invested in saving these foxes would surely be better spent pursuing maybe a human welfare cause.

While you're probably right that in the grand scheme of things foxes aren't THAT important they still don't deserve to be hunted down and ripped to shreds by dogs. It's barbaric and unnecessarily cruel.

Bringing other crimes against humanity into the debate is a bit disingenuous and could probably be applied to most problems that aren't on the scale of genocide. So you could argue that most things aren't important beside x, y and z.

I don't mean any of that to sound harsh if it comes across as that.
 
Re: Adopt a fox

hi piggy,
that's ok it's not harsh just opinion.
However I think you've missed my point. The adopting a fox thing was a play on the situation.

One point is that I can't see the reasoning behind why so many people are prepared to draw battle lines on the fox hunting issue. Sure the manner in which the fox is treated is not right. Is it right engage in violent confrontations with the other lobby group and go to extreme lengths to make a point i.e saboutage and booby trapping which cause often severe injuries to many people. All because of the fox. I am using the UK as an example, but while we haven't reached this stage yet in Ireland, but maybe it will happen. I just don't see the logic behind this much fanaticism. There is a lack of balance as I see it in relation to other issues.

This week we had a report from Limerick about the dog which had nails hammered into it's stomach. Awful right ? Cruelty to pets is not a new occurence. I saw it happening when I was a youngster and it undoubtedly happened long before that as well. We don't see as much reported about this kind of incident, or have people up in arms or prepared to fight tooth and nail over it. Every weekend in our towns and cities, innocent people are being violently attacked and often fatally injured, but we don't see such a fanatic reaction in protest at this either.

I just don't understand the imbalance of attitude shown on these issues. Can anyone see where I am coming from ??
 
Re: Adopt a fox

Your comparison to the nailing incident in Limerick is irrelevant. Such activity clearly is illegal today. Chasing a fox across the fields with a pack of dogs is legal today.

I don't think the comments about hunt sabs are particularly relevant either. Having a strong opinion that fox hunting is wrong does not mean that I would consider illegal activity to enforce this view.
 
Re: Adopt a fox

Hi harto1,

Yes, I can definitely understand your point in relation to extremist lobby groups in the UK. They take matters way too far and do their cause no good either.

But that sort of activity should not be confused with the vast majority of anti-hunt people who would oppose it in a non-confrontational manner.
 
Re: Proposed fox hunting ban in the Ireland..

Does any one have any comments on hare coursing? Is it the same moral question as fox hunting?
Click to expand...

Since greyhounds are muzzled I'm not as anti-hare coursing as I once was. Hares are selected for coursing meetings. Sick and weak ones are released back to the wild and only healthy ones run the course for which they are trained to do. These days if a hare gets killed its a rare event.

Fox hunting for me is a class thing. If my land is out of bounds to the hunt, what gives them the right to still enter it, flattening hedgerows and fences in their path. The snobbery of some of these people is frightening. What's just as frightening is that some of these people have no qualms in leaving a trailer of 20 hounds or 2 horses in a horse-box outside a pub for hours while they get bladdered.
 
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