Proposed European Super League

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odyssey06

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Proposed league would take place midweek, so instead of their involvement in UEFA competitions.
The teams still want to compete in their domestic leagues - if allowed.

"AC Milan, Arsenal, Atletico Madrid, Chelsea, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Juventus, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United, Real Madrid and Tottenham Hotspur have come together as founding clubs,” said a statement by the group. The founding clubs will receive “a one-time payment of the order of €3.5 billion”.

PSG and Bayern Munich have not signed up (yet?).
The group would be hoping they come on board as permanent players and there would also be 5 'wildcard' slots based on 'domestic achievements'.

Will it come to pass or is it a bluff to get more control over Champions League revenues?

www.the42.ie

Twelve clubs unveil plans to launch European Super League

Six English sides, including Manchester United and Liverpool, are involved in the proposed competition.
www.the42.ie www.the42.ie
 
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I am presuming it is a bluff because I struggle to see how 12 successful clubs can be so stupid as to think this will work.
 
It’s interesting to note that Bayern Munich are majority fan owned and would find it difficult to convince fans of the ethics of joining an elitist league.
Oh that other clubs weren’t forced to follow suit !
 
Deiseblue said:
It’s interesting to note that Bayern Munich are majority fan owned and would find it difficult to convince fans of the ethics of joining an elitist league.
Oh that other clubs weren’t forced to follow suit !
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The one I find odd is PSG as I can't see any reason why they wouldn't join. The more I read their statements, the angrier I get. Then I think of Spurs claiming that they belong in the elite in Europe for ever and ever and then I remember how utterly ridiculous the whole idea is.

This will be interesting battle. Clubs seem to really think fans are stupid. That will continue to pack the ground, buy the shirts and merchandise and more importantly take out TV subscriptions to watch them no matter what happens. Will be interesting to see how stupid fans actually are. Also, what brand wants to be associated with this league considering the universal opposition to it across Europe.....
 
More will join and it will be watched globally. Football is as more about TV revenue then traditional fans these days. And for all the fans give out about this, are they far more likely to go and watch Arsenal V Barcelona or Spurs v Real Madrid as opposed to Arsenal V Rochdale or Spurs v Stevenage Borough in the League Cup? If you've been to a CL match in London these days, I'd say 30% + of the crowd are tourists. (and I've been one of them so can't give out too much)

This already happens in other sports, European Basketball is a case in point. It'll be interesting to see how much of the money raised goes to pay down debt at club and owners level then being invested back into the clubs for facilities and players.

As for brands, brands with a global reach will step up and not worry because 10000 Arsenal fans are going to "boycott" Coke or Mastercard when they can have their ads reaching millions in Asia.

Sounds cynical but is it any more cynical then the GAA super 8's, the Pro 14 Rainbow Cup etc. ?
 
Peanuts20 said:
More will join and it will be watched globally. Football is as more about TV revenue then traditional fans these days. And for all the fans give out about this, are they far more likely to go and watch Arsenal V Barcelona or Spurs v Real Madrid as opposed to Arsenal V Rochdale or Spurs v Stevenage Borough in the League Cup? If you've been to a CL match in London these days, I'd say 30% + of the crowd are tourists. (and I've been one of them so can't give out too much)

This already happens in other sports, European Basketball is a case in point. It'll be interesting to see how much of the money raised goes to pay down debt at club and owners level then being invested back into the clubs for facilities and players.

As for brands, brands with a global reach will step up and not worry because 10000 Arsenal fans are going to "boycott" Coke or Mastercard when they can have their ads reaching millions in Asia.

Sounds cynical but is it any more cynical then the GAA super 8's, the Pro 14 Rainbow Cup etc. ?
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There have always been 'tourists' going to games. Saturday at Old Trafford is like the United Nations.
I agree about appeal of Asia but football is deluding itself about the TV rights. The Premiership has already seen initial deal in China collapse and is now only worth half what it was. Football has been claiming that Asia and the US are markets that are ripe for picking for 20 years now.

Even this money that the clubs are getting from JPMorgan. They make it sound like they are getting money for nothing by calling it a 'grant' but it looks like is basically a secured loan on future TV revenues. If the TV revenues don't come to fruition, are the already indebted clubs responsible for paying the money back?

A European Super League is a great idea for everyone involved on the money side of football but in the UK alone, it will mean the end of the League Cup and the FA Cup which I admit were dying anyway but they offered something to lower league teams. You will have 6 clubs competing in the Premiership who are guaranteed minimum €250m every single year no matter how they perform on the pitch just by taking part in the competition. One of those clubs could be regulated and still not make one bit of difference. The Premiership was bad enough from a competition point of view but this will completely kill off the league. Premiership TV rights that the other clubs rely on to survive will collapse as they just won't be attractive. Parachute payments to league clubs will collapse. You even look at the LOI and the payments that they receive from UEFA on the back on the Champions League and Europa league. Same with other smaller European football leagues.

I can see the attractiveness of it and don't for one second believe that they can't make success of it if they are allowed. JPMorgan don't throw out loans of this size without having done their homework. The formation the Premiership and the Champions League didn't destroy football but this is taking it too far due to lack of competition. As I said, I refuse to give any credibility to a competition where a team like Spurs have the right to be considered amongst the European elite every single year....Or even Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea based on recent league performance. West Ham finish above Liverpool so we reward Liverpool with €250m and tell West Ham to take their place in some second rate European competition while Liverpool take their place in the 'Super League'..........
 
People complaining about this are like knowing that your wife works as a prostitute but getting angry and surprised because you happened to walk in when she was entertaining a client. Elite European Football sold its soul two decades ago. This is just the natural evolution on the Premiership model into the NFL model.
 
Speaking as a Leyton Orient fan of some 30 + years (it's a long story) there is part of me not really caring about this as I'm far more interested in our belated push for the league 2 playoffs. Having seen the next door neighbours (West Ham) get a free stadium, then we get relegated to non-League, survive a winding up order, get promoted back to the League and then see our manager die just after that, there is part of me going "mnah" about this. Follow a lower league club and a lot of these problems at the top get put into perspective.

What will it mean for us?. the FA cup will continue and the lip service the likes of Man C showed on Saturday evening to it don't make a massive difference to us unless we get to the 3rd round and get drawn against one of the big guys. That might not happen now but even if it does, we're going to be playing their reserves/U23 team anyway. Same applies to the League Cup. I could argue that if we did do a Brentford and go close to the Premier league (or even get there) then the income we get may be reduced from where it is now but having seen Wigan Hull, Bolton, Swindon etc get there and for it all to go wrong, I wonder is it truely worth it?. We're well run now with sensible owners, each season has been better then the last for the last 3 years and actually the last season in non-league was an utter pleasure.

I guess the bigger fear for us is the drip down of money from the big leagues may be impacted and new owners for clubs in trouble may become more difficult to find if you don't have a shiny target at the end.
 
I don't think so Purple. There is a massive difference between a competition where each year you have to qualify in order to compete in it, and a competition where 75% of the participants are guaranteed to be in it each year. That isn't evolution, that's reinvention and not in a good way. The fact that some of these supposedly "superior" clubs are nothing of the sort sits in the craw as well but that's just a sideshow.
The Premiership was merely a rebranding of the old First Division (in the same way the other leagues have been renamed since). It still involved relegation and promotion to and from the other leagues.
There's definitely an issue in the ever widening gap between the wealth at the top and the clubs lower down the leagues but this is taking things to a completely different level. There is no way this can be seen as a natural evolution.
 
Purple said:
People complaining about this are like knowing that your wife works as a prostitute but getting angry and surprised because you happened to walk in when she was entertaining a client. Elite European Football sold its soul two decades ago. This is just the natural evolution on the Premiership model into the NFL model.
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To be fair, the wife shouldn't be bringing her work home with her!

Without a doubt, football sold it's soul a long time ago and I don't really buy this 'What about the fans who are all that matters' argument.... I saw a report with a source saying that 'they are not targeting legacy fans, they are targeting new fans' and I think that pretty much sums it up about why it would be successful.

I have no interest in the league but I have waning interest in football outside LOI anyway so not their target market. But I think this is extremely damaging for the sport. Or maybe that is the old romantic in me......

I suppose I should have given up when a players number of instagram followers became part of the decision making as to whether to sign a player or not.......
 
Ceist Beag said:
I don't think so Purple. There is a massive difference between a competition where each year you have to qualify in order to compete in it, and a competition where 75% of the participants are guaranteed to be in it each year. That isn't evolution, that's reinvention and not in a good way. The fact that some of these supposedly "superior" clubs are nothing of the sort sits in the craw as well but that's just a sideshow.
The Premiership was merely a rebranding of the old First Division (in the same way the other leagues have been renamed since). It still involved relegation and promotion to and from the other leagues.
There's definitely an issue in the ever widening gap between the wealth at the top and the clubs lower down the leagues but this is taking things to a completely different level. There is no way this can be seen as a natural evolution.
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The Germans have a rule that no more than 49% of the clubs can be under commercial ownership.
The English Premiership is owned by oligarchs, blood money and asset stripping Americans. This is the inevitable consequence of decisions made 20 years ago.
When players earn more in a week than the gate receipts from a full house is anyone really surprised that the so-called "Real Fans" are far less important than building a superstar based brand where PlayStation profiles and the jersey sales that generates is more important than season ticket sales.
 
Purple said:
The Germans have a rule that no more than 49% of the clubs can be under commercial ownership.
The English Premiership is owned by oligarchs, blood money and asset stripping Americans. This is the inevitable consequence of decisions made 20 years ago.
When players earn more in a week than the gate receipts from a full house is anyone really surprised that the so-called "Real Fans" are far less important than building a superstar based brand where PlayStation profiles and the jersey sales that generates is more important than season ticket sales.
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+1 to all of that Purple. If this ESL doesn't happen UEFA were already bending over to the richest clubs already and were proposing an equally bad reformatting of the CL into a 36 team league, so you won't find any sympathy for UEFA, FIFA or the PL here. That's the natural evolution you were talking about - there is no way back to the so called good old days.
That said, this would bring into question a lot more than simply the top teams looking for a bigger slice of the pie. It's a much bigger shakeup than the PL was and tbh I really don't see it working. Maybe it's a gamble in negotiations with UEFA but it does seem like those behind this are intent on going ahead with it.
 
Sunny , a bit harsh on Spurs who over the last decade statistically finished 5th with Arsenal in 6th and made it to a Champions League final without it must be said the vast sums available to City , United , Liverpool and Chelsea.
So if such a super league is to happen and 6 English clubs are involved then yes Spurs should be one of them , personally I hope this super league never happens.
I would declare a slight bias , I always keep an eye out for Spurs results as one of my mate's father played for them.
 
Purple said:
The Germans have a rule that no more than 49% of the clubs can be under commercial ownership.
The English Premiership is owned by oligarchs, blood money and asset stripping Americans. This is the inevitable consequence of decisions made 20 years ago.
When players earn more in a week than the gate receipts from a full house is anyone really surprised that the so-called "Real Fans" are far less important than building a superstar based brand where PlayStation profiles and the jersey sales that generates is more important than season ticket sales.
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Did it not start further back than that.
Tottenham floated on the stock exchange in 1983, well before the Premier League era.

Juventus seem to be one of the main movers in this and they are playing in the same league owned by the same family as they were in the 1980s.

The roots of this run pretty deep and are not just in the Premier League.
 
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Deiseblue said:
Sunny , a bit harsh on Spurs who over the last decade statistically finished 5th with Arsenal in 6th and made it to a Champions League final without it must be said the vast sums available to City , United , Liverpool and Chelsea.
So if such a super league is to happen and 6 English clubs are involved then yes Spurs should be one of them , personally I hope this super league never happens.
I would declare a slight bias , I always keep an eye out for Spurs results as one of my mate's father played for them.
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I don't think it is harsh at all and I like Spurs! Lived in London for a while and they were my nearest team.....I also don't think Arsenal belong there. Chelsea either. Or even Man Utd based on recent performances. I don't think any team deserves to be considered to automatically belong in a 'Super league' on anything other than performance. Same goes for the Italian sides especially AC Milan.

But considering Spurs haven't won a cup in 13 years and that was a league cup, I really struggle to see them as European elite.....
 
The reason I looked at the last decade was to show that Spurs have been consistently amongst the top 6 in the Premier league over that period and if the super league is to include 6 Premier clubs then Spurs have a viable case to be included.
Sure Spurs haven't won anything in years but the achievement in reaching a Champions League final and being quite consistent in the league in recent years makes them pretty elite in my eyes .
 
Isn't that the problem though. The whole concept of an "elite" group of teams is just plain wrong. This concept would have prevented Leicester from winning the PL, Ajax from their great run in the CL, even this year West Ham and Leicester competing for the top 4. Fair play to Daniel Levy for getting Spurs into the mix but it's pretty laughable that they consider themselves an elite club in Europe.
 
Deiseblue said:
The reason I looked at the last decade was to show that Spurs have been consistently amongst the top 6 in the Premier league over that period and if the super league is to include 6 Premier clubs then Spurs have a viable case to be included.
Sure Spurs haven't won anything in years but the achievement in reaching a Champions League final and being quite consistent in the league in recent years makes them pretty elite in my eyes .
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I don't think they are European elite in performance terms. They are elite in England and in financial terms.
 
odyssey06 said:
I don't think they are European elite in performance terms. They are elite in England and in financial terms.
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I agree , if the Super League is to comprise of 6 Premier teams I feel that Spurs should be one of those teams certainly ahead of Arsenal .
Certainly Spurs run to the Champions league final in 2018-19 should place them in the elite group- a hell of an achievement .
 
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