Property tax to replace stamp duty?

[MrMan]

We need to get beyond worrying about whether it will damage the property market and recognise that it was the property market which damaged our economy in the first place.

Makes no sense whatsoever, the economy flourished during the long boom years with many knock on effects in different job sectors. The property market is on a downward slope now but you cannot deduce from that that the property market has screwed us all! If you take the property market out of the equation from the last 15 years then we wouldn't have progressed as far as nation. And because of it we should be in a better position to deal with this recession that so far has been wildly blown out of proportion.

 

[shnaek]

Well amazingly enough the people who are currently renting are not buying even though they are no longer priced out of the market. Why do you think that is?

No access to capital. Banks have clammed up. Also most people believe houses will continue to fall in price for a while, and there is no point in taking risk at this point in time. Some may be considering leaving the country if they work in areas where their jobs are at risk.

 

[webtax]

Makes no sense whatsoever

The celtic tiger growth was the result of a strong export-based economy in a low-cost country with a highly educated workforce.The next logical step in our development would have been to develop an indigenous hi-tech base using the skills & expertise gained from the multi-nationals.

Instead, the property boom took over and we had young men turning their backs on third level education to chase the quick buck through an apprenticeship. Investment capital moved to feed at the property development trough when it could have been used to develop innovative exportable products which would have delivered long term benefits.

So yes, I believe the propery boom did damage our economy by providing a temporary boom & bust which has left a highly indebted generation of young people.

 

[MrMan]

I don't think these young men turned their backs on third level education. to my knowledge there has been a steady growth in 3rd level take up and the construction sector actually requires 3rd level education for many areas. What we have seen is tradesmen making huge sums of money which is great for them and they have also pumped alot of it back into the economy through greater spending habits etc.

Trades and high tech skills are very different and suit different skill sets so I don't think we can simply say that 1,000s of guys ended up in construction when they should have been developing their technology skills.
Would we not have faced a recession no matter which route we took?

 

[webtax]

to my knowledge there has been a steady growth in 3rd level take up

The various think tanks all say there is a shortage of skilled science & technology graduates in the country. Look at any of the multinationals - how many recruits do they have to source from abroad?

the construction sector actually requires 3rd level education for many areas.

But can these qualification be used to generate exportable products?

What we have seen is tradesmen making huge sums of money which is great for them and they have also pumped alot of it back into the economy through greater spending habits etc.

Huge sums of money that house buyers had to borrow to - which will have to be paid back for the next 20/30 years.

 

[Bronte]

No access to capital. Banks have clammed up. Also most people believe houses will continue to fall in price for a while, and there is no point in taking risk at this point in time. Some may be considering leaving the country if they work in areas where their jobs are at risk.

And what about the possibility that even if they got a mortgage that interest rates rising are making it impossible for them to afford the repayments plus the possibility that rates may go higher and they may lose their jobs.

 

[MrMan]

And what about the possibility that even if they got a mortgage that interest rates rising are making it impossible for them to afford the repayments plus the possibility that rates may go higher and they may lose their jobs.

and the sky might fall. Why are all the what ifs so negative?

 

[mercman]

The current state of the Irish Property market is the biggest blame game show in town. What if -- if people had used their loaf and not been so keen to buy property. When the Government tried to slow the market down with the Bacon report there was Public Outcry. Now there is a Tax shortfall and money will have to be found. Property is a Long Term Business not just a couple of months and profits start rolling in. A property Tax on Investment properties both residential and commercial is the most sensible way forward.

 

[teachai]

"A property Tax on Investment properties both residential and commercial"

Well, that makes more sense, but what was being proposed was a property tax on all properties.

I still believe that the only fair system is based on ability to pay, and that is done at point of purchase, whether it be property, cars, clothing, etc.

This is why stamp duty worked. People bought property they could afford, taking into account any stamp duty they had to pay. If they didn't want to pay stamp duty, they could purchase stamp duty exempt properties.

 

[Bronte]

and the sky might fall. Why are all the what ifs so negative?

As everything is so positive one should go out now and buy that dream house and interest rates will probably go down and sure the property is bound to rise in the long term and your salary is going up in any case, and if you don't have the money for the furniture you can buy it on credit, and you can buy that brand new lexus on HP. Would you prefer it this way MrMan, I do believe that's why a lot of people are in a mess right now and with no way out. The negative and the positives should have been pointed out to people not just the positives. A property tax right now would only make things worse.

 

[MrMan]

As everything is so positive one should go out now and buy that dream house and interest rates will probably go down and sure the property is bound to rise in the long term and your salary is going up in any case, and if you don't have the money for the furniture you can buy it on credit, and you can buy that brand new lexus on HP. Would you prefer it this way MrMan, I do believe that's why a lot of people are in a mess right now and with no way out. The negative and the positives should have been pointed out to people not just the positives. A property tax right now would only make things worse.

I don't see the connection with not having a gloomy disposition or negative outlook with going out and putting things on credit or hp which is a mistake in any economic climate in my opinion. You would be foolish to base any major financial decisions on what might or might not happen. So if you can reel yourself back in there a bit you might understand that I was saying that all is not quite so negative a rather than everything is super duper.