Problem tenants - more problems

elainem

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Hi! I wrote a while ago about my problem tenants - never had problem tenants before - who said I could come into the house and show the gardener what to do in the garden. When I went to the house with the gardener and my kids, the house was in a terrible state, e.g. coffee cups with mould so hard that it didn't move when you moved the cup, rotting food on plates with cigarettes stubbed out on them, and a garden patio area which was covered with cigarette butts. My son wanted to use the toilet upstairs, but wouldn't sit on it as it was too dirty - faces, blood etc on loo when we went up to see it, also lots of make-up marks on doors and stairs that looked like they had never been swept since they moved in.

We took photos but never entered any of the rooms - two of the doors where closed. Afterwards, the tenants threatened me with PRTB because I had gone upstairs without their permission, though I had their permission to bring the garderner through the downstairs tot he back garden.

Previous to that the ceiling in the kitchen had fallen down due to leak, and I had to get the ceiling replastered - I believe the leak was happening for ages but they didn't tell me. The plasterer who did the plastering said the pace was so messy he was shocked, and he was particularly shocked when he asked to use the loo and found a bin over-flowing with sanitary towels and tampons in the bathroom.

Now they have moved out - they got a checklist and have adequately cleaned, but the carpet which was put down five days before they moved in is absolutely filtlhy - every step is caked in dirt, and at the top on the landing, there appears to be oil stains along the landing.

The ceiling which I got fixed at beginning of May is now about to come down again. There is an old brown stain on it which the plasterer said is from a few weeks ago as the plasterboard is still damp - but is wasn't recent damp from our showers. The tenants tried to cover up the stain by painting it in white though I asked them not to paint the ceiling - the stain isn't still covered over. The tentants are refusing to take responsibility for this saying that there is a structural problem with the bathroom. jBoth the plumber and the plasterer said there is no leak and no structural problem, but that the tenants must have been leaving the shower door over the bath open, or not closing it properly, when they had a shower. The cost of redoing the ceiling is e160 - the cost of cleaning the carpet - if it doesn't have to be replaced - is e60.

Anyway the tenants are refusing to allow me to deduct these costs from the deposit. Because I went upstairs initially when I first saw the mess in the house - though I was so shocked with mess downstairs that I felt I had to see what it was like upstairs, they are threatening to report me to PRTB. They are also threatening to report for going into the house last Sunday when the tenancy ended. We had gone to the house at 4 and then again at 6 to see if they had gone. My daughter told me that the t.v. was gone from the house and there was nothing in the front room - she looked through the window - so we went into the house and saw that they had left some stuff - we just dropped our three duvets there and left. They didn't move out until 12 midnight that nights as is their right. But now they are saying they are going to report me to PRTB for this - I genuinely believed they were gone - and yet they won't take any responsibility for the damage to the property.

Where do I stand with these girls - what if they report me to the PRTB - sorry about long post - would welcome comments.
 
I don't know but I can't imagine the PRTB will do much about you entering without permission just these two times. You shouldn't have done it, but its got nothing to do with the deposit.

160+80 is very little cost (in terms of your costs for the year/tenancy) for a handover. If you took it to the PRTB you'd probably win, or perhaps it would be spilt 50:50 But is it worth that for all the hassle, for such little gain. You'll always incur costs between tenants. I wouldn't lose sleep or stress about it, just move on and get the next tenant in. its a business. This is a cost of running this business.

If the cost was 500+ maybe, but then I've seen LL left out of pocket for a thousand or more. They'd have been delighted with 240.
 
Sadly, I agree with Albacorea. I think most LLs reluctantly would.

Unless one has lots of time ,energy and determination -and above all has low stress levels - then fighting over a few hundred euros is just not worth it.

The only lesson is to check on the tenants a few times at the start of the tenancy.If things look O.K. it's usually the case they will continue to be so.

The more I read similar AAM posts over the years the more I think is it worth making it absolutely clear in any agreement that the LL will inspect the rooms every XYZ months with adequate notice. ( I think that's allowed anyway but I'm not sure what in law is regarded as a reasonable number of visits)

I don't actually do any agreement/contract -just a few points in a letter and copies of the PRTB booklets. I always point out the parts about tenants responsibilities.

But the real fact is it's never guaranteed whether at the end of the day one ends up with dirty scumbags or not, despiite preliminary appearances.
 
Problem tenants

Thanks AlbacoreA and Oldnick for your replies and advice. I think I will just let it go, it's too much hassle. Re entering the house without the tenants permission, this was not actually the case. I went to the house with the gardener to get the back and front garden sorted. I asked the tenants permission to bring the gardener through the house to show him what had to be done in the garden. We had to pass through the hall and kitchen and lounge to get to the back garden as the property is terraced. When I saw the state of the downstairs and the garden, I felt the need to go upstairs to see if the rest of the house was in a similar condition - I didn't actually go into any rooms as the doors were closed but I saw the state of the bathroom and the landings - my son had actually gone uptstaris to the loo - only one - before I got there, but wouldn't use it as he thought it was so dirty - he is quite fussy for a 10 year old!

Thanks again for your replies.
 
Would have to agree with the previous 2 posters.

What I do is give the tenants a notice titled:-

SOME OF THE MORE COMMON CAUSES
OF
DEDUCTIONS FROM YOUR DEPOSIT

...which includes a section on excessive cleaning and I get them to sign it. If you want a copy, PM me your email address and I'll send it to you.

On the inventory, which they also have to sign, is a statement at the bottom that all furnishings etc. were received in good and clean order.

I also supply cleaning materials to start them off and explain that I expect to get the property back in the same condition as they received it.

It doesn't always work, but luckily sometimes it does. :)
 
Fortunately as a landlord I have never had serious issues with tenants. However if I was treated as badly as you appear to have been I would simply keep the deposit.

They probably wont report you to the PRTB, but so what if they do.

What are the practical consequences to a landlord of an adverse finding by the PRTB. None I believe. You can simply ignore it, and it will go away. Does anyone know if I am wrong here.
 
Problem tennants

Hi! Cremegg, thanks for your reply. The letting agent told me that the PRTB is much more on the side of the tenant, and that landlords have been ordered to pay up to 20k in compensation to tenants for keeping their deposit, entering their property etc. - I don't know whether this is actually true, or whether they were scaremongering me.
 
All the cases and determination orders are listed on the PRTB website so you can see for yourself what they decide. What happens after the PRTB isn't listed.

I know some LLs who have won at the PRTB but it's not worth the hassle for such a small amount.
 
I wouldn't let it go, it's just an idle threat, and your estimations seem conservative. The PRTB is considered to be pro tenant only because when the landlord wins, it is generally too much hassle to go looking for the costs, but not the other way round. If you are just withholding part of the deposit, that should be fine, and if they couldn't empty a bin, then I would doubt that they could collectively muster the energy to even lodge a complaint.
 
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