Probe after 'unexplained' surge in people claiming disability allowance

[QUOTE="TheBigShort, post: 1556489

From page 27 is the medical report required by a GP to complete in order for an individual to claim DA.[/QUOTE]

No one on DA gets it without the medical report so it is not easy to get it. Once a person is on it, especially with a chronic illness, that's it for life.

Drug addicts are on it, alcoholics (liver disease), COPD sufferers (mainly tobacco smoking damage) etc.

Cancer patients qualify and come off it if they recover and go back to work.

I'd say there are some people getting paid the DA who are not as bad as they let on and have improved healthwise since first claimed.

Its just another payment from the DSP which needs auditing and the Public Sector overall is struggling to fill posts and the manpower is not available to perform 6 monthly or annual checks on everyone claiming various allowances or benefits..
 
The medical report and application itself appear quite detailed and open to interpretation by independent assessors.

On the face of it, and I agree with what you say, DA is not something handed out very lightly.
Makes you wonder however, how, as another poster said, that their friends could choose DA as their preferred welfare entitlement over JSA?
 
-People are living longer
-More recognised diagnosis
-and lets not forget our illnesses related to alcohol addiction (and drugs, sex, gambling). We are still the highest perscribers of Benzos in the EU. This along with other factors, facilitates a dependance on the Medical model of treatment for illnesses which may respond better with psychosocial models and prevention measures such as healthier lifestyle choices, mindfullness, self care in the worplace, etc...It is a whole lot harder to gain any DA payment in the last number of years, resulting in many genuinely ill people remaining on a Job Seekers payment and feeling the pressure from contracted companies such as Seetec.
 
girlonamission said:
It is a whole lot harder to gain any DA payment in the last number of years, resulting in many genuinely ill people remaining on a Job Seekers payment and feeling the pressure from contracted companies such as Seetec.
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Imagine if it wasn't getting harder...that 50% rise in 10 years could have been 100% instead!
 
Indeed! But the problem as I see it, is in the assessment and application process of DA payments. There are people on Jobseekers allowance who are nearing 60 years of age, have an array of social and mental health difficulties and who, with pressure from DEASP and initiatives such as Job Path (who get paid per placement), are seeing DA as the ir only option, when really there is a need for another payment stream because (lets be honest) many have little chance, even with the right supports, of entering into the world of work in any significant way. It requires computer skills to apply for jobs, interview techniques, not to mention skills, qualifications and an elements of social, emotional and mental stability. It is too late for many of these individuals and the DEASP are wasting more money passing them from one department to another. Lessons need to be learned and in fairness, initiatives such as the youth gaurantee and many local succesfull programmes in areas with high unemployment, are successful (to a point) in breaking this cycle which has been passed down for generations. It's not right nor wrong, it is a result of ignoring the problem for too many years. Also recent research shows that there is only a very small percentage of welfare fraud in this Country.
 
TheBigShort said:
I'd be surprised if its as simple as that. Don't you need a medical assessment?

I mean, simply stating that you are 'suicidal' will probably get you a prescription for anti-depressants and maybe an appointment with a psychologist. It doesn't automatically equate to being "substantially restricted in undertaking work". A psychologist might well determine that the lack of employment is the root cause of the depression.

There are 40,000 wheelchair users in Ireland. I'm not sure how many are working age but 20,000 is hardly ott? That is 20,000 DA recipients for one disability alone. Add in those with limbs missing, hard of hearing, sight impairment and recognizable mental disabilities such as aspergers syndrome and autism.
Add in more disabilities that you can think of, and its not hard to see how the number 126,000 of claimants is made up.
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I think is is a bit like the rent controls finishing up putting up rents on peopl
The department of social protection protection will have sent out a Questionnaire form to fill up around six months before your Illness Benifit Finishes

The will ask for your Medication and prescription list they give you around a month to return Questionnaire plenty of time to get extra prescriptions if so inclined to



The will also inform you that the information provided may be used to assess your entitlement to long term illness schemes
should you have any additional information and or medical evidence e.g. specialists' reports results of investagations etc which you wish to submit please attach copies.to assist the Department's medical assessor in there assessments. Time to get them if you don't have them if so inclined

Then you have to fill out the Questionnaire Does your Condition affect the activities of your typical day under the following headings by the time your finished filling it in you will know what needs to be done if you want to get paid once your Illness benefit ends if so inclined,

The first thing you will do if so inclined is contact a professional to see if there is a loophole like the boys use for tax avoidance in this case a doctor to see if there is a way around the system

The first thing the professional will ask when your great great grandmother died did you feel any anxiety are you still on a prescription for your anxiety when did it start affecting your work I need to update my records how many years ago since you first notice ,

I better get you to attend that Public Hospital Specialist I know it is all clogged up but I will see can you be seen before your benefit runs out if not don't worry once you are waiting to be seen you will be grand,

The professional knows the system well so he will be waiting for form MRREP to arrive

What is the first Question Indicate the degree to which the patient's condition has affected his/her ability in all the following areas First Mental Health/Behaviour .

the very first Question and a few others is down to the patient doctor relationship the doctor can only go off what the patient tells them,Depending on what the patent tells the doctor will decide there entiitlement to long term illness schemes,

I still think most do not fall into the above bracket there will always be people who are looking for loopholes and there will always be people well paid to help them ,
 
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Thinking about the four people I know on DA.

None of them are disabled, in that they could all work in some job.

None of them want to work.

Three of the four have some issue, that could be stretched to be seen as a disability in some people's eyes.

One of the four simply had cancer in the past, but that in no way prevents them from working now.

Now, all of the four would not find it easy to find work, and would not be very employable.

So, in some sense, DA is being used to park people who might otherwise be on JSA.
 
Interesting in light of the constant calls one hears for a universal basic income. We already have it, the only hurdle you have to jump is convincing a doctor you've got depression, back pain or some variant of chronic fatigue syndrome, which is not particularly difficult.
 
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Protocol said:
Thinking about the four people I know on DA.

None of them are disabled, in that they could all work in some job.

None of them want to work.

Three of the four have some issue, that could be stretched to be seen as a disability in some people's eyes.

One of the four simply had cancer in the past, but that in no way prevents them from working now.

Now, all of the four would not find it easy to find work, and would not be very employable.

So, in some sense, DA is being used to park people who might otherwise be on JSA.
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I suspect the doctor can also see they would not find it easy to find work he/she is not going to put them under stress no job/no money so the Doctor patient relationship click in I suspect the hardest part was to get the doctor to sign the first cert within a few months the department will only require a cert every month which drifts into long term illness drifts into DA,or DB,
 
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You dont need to have an impairment that prevents you from working.
You need to be substantially restricted in undertaking work suitable to you.
Eg. If im a painter & decorator but lose the use of an arm in an accident. Perhaps I get a job thereafter in a call centre? I can still claim DA.
Its somewhat an acknowledgement that your options for what you are qualified and experienced at is now severely restricted. An acknowledgement that equality of opportunity in the labour market has been curtailed.
Having said that, if I make enough money in the call centre I am means tested and the DA is reduced or withdrawn.

TheBigShort said:
Qualifying Conditions in Summary
To qualify for a Disability Allowance a person must:

  • Have an injury, disease or physical or mental disability that has continued or may be expected to continue for at least one year
  • As a result of this disability be substantially restricted in undertaking work that would otherwise be suitable for a person of your age, experience and qualifications
  • be aged between 16 and under 66
  • satisfy a means test
  • be habitually resident in the State
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I know 2 people who are on DA;

One is an alcoholic. She is delighted, as she is now free to do what she wants, without the DSP hounding her.
Her Facebook is a constant whirl of social outings.

Another has a condition called ergophobia. He has not worked for 12 years, and is not looking for a job.

Both of these people are able-bodied, and could do a lot of jobs.
 
What I take from this thread is that no one knows why there has been a "surge" in disability allowance claimants.

The proposal for further investigation is ,therefore, the correct one. While we may speculate in the meantime, any conclusions would be prejudice.
 
fistophobia said:
One is an alcoholic. She is delighted, as she is now free to do what she wants, without the DSP hounding her.
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fistophobia said:
Another has a condition called ergophobia.
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fistophobia said:
Both of these people are able-bodied, and could do a lot of jobs.
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Every employers dream. :rolleyes:

My understanding with a disability with alcohilism is that it works two ways. Either you are still drinking or you are not. If you are clinically alcoholic and still drinking then you are not considered as being in the labour force. Not much use to employers if you are regularly hung-over or under the influence on the job.
The other is that you are sober, and are actively seeking work. If you obtain work, your DA will eventually be means tested against your income.

As for ergophobia - I admit I had never heard of it before - I would imagine it would require some clinical and pyschological assessment to determine that condition before its considered? In other words, not the easiest of strokes to pull?
 
TheBigShort said:
Every employers dream. :rolleyes:
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We have a couple of guys who have a bad relationship with alcohol. They probably miss a day a week. They are highly skilled and would have to be paid far more if they were no drinkers so it can work, as long as you look at the value you get from them overall and not just their time keeping.
 
Purple said:
We have a couple of guys who have a bad relationship with alcohol. They probably miss a day a week. They are highly skilled and would have to be paid far more if they were no drinkers so it can work, as long as you look at the value you get from them overall and not just their time keeping.
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I dont doubt it. There are many examples of alcoholics performing not only to the best of their ability, but to the best in their respective field.
English football, from George Best up to '80's, '90's has plenty of examples of this.

Alcoholism only really becomes a problem, when it becomes a problem (if you get what I mean?).
Broadly speaking, it is a slow-burning ailment. Its seeds are planted early, but it could be years, even decades, before it manifests itself into a problem.
 
it's a difficult problem to tackle - they've gone after so called "spurious" DA claims in the UK and the papers are full of stories of people having their benefit cutoff while undergoing chemotherapy, or dying shortly after losing their benefits, or committing suicide. The consequences of getting it wrong are horrendous. With low-skilled jobs becoming scarcer it's easier for the govt to allow DA numbers to drift up; whilst there may be many recipients who could do "something" are there actually jobs there for them?
 
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