Probate: what do I actually need a Solicitor for?

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zuinig

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My widowed father passed recently and left pretty much everything to myself and two siblings. Two of us are named as executors with a very clear division of assets among the beneficiaries. The will was exemplary in that regard and there's no cause for confusion or conflict. Assets are cash and property, all in Ireland and all in his name, with a split that suggests most of the cash will be used up to pay the inheritance taxes. Nobody is getting rich here.

I understand that executing the will means applying for probate, starting with the Statement of Affairs procedure, and ultimately satisfying the Probate Office that you can follow the will and pay all taxes. After that you satisfy Revenue that taxes will be paid, or withheld in some cases. Possibly you open a special account with the banks as the LPRs of the deceased so they will be involved. If Revenue is happy and the financial institutions are happy with the Grant of Probate and relevant tax clearances then it should all work. If so then what would I need a solicitor for?

Since this is no windfall why would I pay someone, in this case, around 5% of the cash assets to do what I can surely do myself with some diligence and patience? I'm not working at the moment so I have the time and I am used to dealing with taxes and Revenue for various things already. Will a solicitor save me money or add significant value elsewhere?

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I've been reading the forums and I know that the probate office can require a solicitor in some cases. For instance, when paying a foreign beneficiary so that taxes are withheld. Maybe there are other obvious cases but I can't see any possibility here of money escaping Revenue. Presumably the bank won't release a penny until Revenue OK it.

Above all, I'm not being disrespectful to or dismissive of the legal profession. I just want to remain in control of my affairs and remain thrifty at the same time.

thanks in advance,
 
I was attempting to do the Probate on behalf of my late mother in law and it should have been straightforward. However, an issue regarding the registration of her house meant that I couldn't complete without searches and check of the solicitors' file, who dealt with the previous probate to proceed. So, in some cases, an issue such as this may require legal assistance.
 
Thanks for all the answers. It seems to me like the only benefit to using a solicitor is to maybe get a Grant of Probate issued more quickly.
However, once that is issued can the executors then administer the estate without the Solicitor? Or is the Grant issued solely to the Solicitor who applied?
 
It's not necessarily the case that a solicitor will get a grant of probate quicker than a personal applicant.
Once the grant is issued to the executor(s) they can proceed to administer, but as already stated in a previous post a solicitor will need to be instructed for the conveyance of a property.
 
My uncle left me a house & I transferred to my own name with PRAI. You dont need a solicitor. There was also a boundary issue with my parents house which we both sorted with PRAI via affidavits/maps etc..I also did probate myself..took 3 months approx
 
Slim said:
However, an issue regarding the registration of her house meant that I couldn't complete without searches and check of the solicitors' file, who dealt with the previous probate to proceed. So, in some cases, an issue such as this may require legal assistance.
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Doesn't this mean the title was left in a mess by the previous solicitors.
 
zuinig said:
Thanks for all the answers. It seems to me like the only benefit to using a solicitor is to maybe get a Grant of Probate issued more quickly.
However, once that is issued can the executors then administer the estate without the Solicitor? Or is the Grant issued solely to the Solicitor who applied?
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I don't believe this, I got a Grant myself very quickly and found the probate office very helpful. (not Dublin, I've heard Dublin is difficult). Later in order to sell the house I hired a solicitor.

There are threads on here with a step by step. Plus there's loads online and the probate office will guide you.

Currently it's mooted that I be an executor on another case, but I've said I'll only do it with a solicitor as for personal reasons I just can't deal with the admin myself right now. The solicitor who wants the case (long story) is now avoiding sorting this out as his probate guy has left him and he himself can't stand doing probate, we have to 'sell' me to him as I know how to do it. It's 5K so I don't care about paying the solicitor.
 
tom_12345 said:
My uncle left me a house & I transferred to my own name with PRAI. You dont need a solicitor. There was also a boundary issue with my parents house which we both sorted with PRAI via affidavits/maps etc..I also did probate myself..took 3 months approx
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That’s a decent accomplishment and I hope it worked out well for you. I haven’t come across a situation before where a property successfully transferred to another without using the services of a solicitor.

It has to be said that the benefit of using a Solicitor is that you can expect the Solicitor to acquire for you good marketable title of the property (ie full ownership of the property without encumbrance, such that you can sell it on the open market at a future date without any issues arising).

Whilst you may well have achieved this yourself, there is nonetheless a certain security in knowledge that you have used a qualified professional ie using a Solicitor.
 
tom_12345 said:
My uncle left me a house & I transferred to my own name with PRAI. You dont need a solicitor. There was also a boundary issue with my parents house which we both sorted with PRAI via affidavits/maps etc..I also did probate myself..took 3 months approx
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This would presumably not be possible if you were transferring it into another unconnected person's name.
 
Bronte said:
I don't believe this, I got a Grant myself very quickly and found the probate office very helpful. (not Dublin, I've heard Dublin is difficult).
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That wasn’t my experience. I found the Probate Office in Dublin to be extremely efficient and helpful. It might depend on the individual.

Overall, applying for probate takes a bit of admin but if the will is uncomplicated it’s absolutely a good idea to do it yourself.
 
Like with any other service, you can hire someone with expertise to do it for you. If you feel it is pretty straightforward and you are happy to spend the time doing it yourself, go for it. It is no different to people who are good at DIY doing the job themselves instead of hiring a tradesman.
 
Zuinig, based on your post, you seem very on top of what is required. Submit the application (see here), collect the assets (a few letters), consider Capital Acqusition Tax, and distribute the proceeds. Some ancillary services (maybe converyancing, maybe a bank account) may be required but in the main nothing you can't do yourself.

You say that you won't get rich. With a division amongst 3 children with today's thresholds of Group A (€335,000), the estate would need to be a million before you will pay tax and €800,000 (80%) in total before you even need to file a return unless you have already inherited/been gifted something from your parents previously. Go for it, step by step.
 
A few years ago I dealt with my late mother's probate by way of an executor's personal application.
I found the Probate Office in Dublin to be exceptionally helpful.
There was a property element [house] in the estate so I subsequently instructed a solicitor to deal with the conveyancing - for safety !

Be aware that if it looks like there may be complications with the application the Probate Office has the right to terminate the personal application and direct the executor to proceed through a solicitor.
 
eggerb said:
Zuinig, based on your post, you seem very on top of what is required. Submit the application (see here), collect the assets (a few letters), consider Capital Acqusition Tax, and distribute the proceeds. Some ancillary services (maybe converyancing, maybe a bank account) may be required but in the main nothing you can't do yourself.

You say that you won't get rich. With a division amongst 3 children with today's thresholds of Group A (€335,000), the estate would need to be a million before you will pay tax and €800,000 (80%) in total before you even need to file a return unless you have already inherited/been gifted something from your parents previously. Go for it, step by step.
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Thanks for the encouraging words.

On the last point: consider a hypothetical case of a house valued (by Revenue; they have a Soviet price-setting mindset) at 500k and cash of 100k. This would lead to a tax bill of 87k. You'd be left with 13k and property maintenance and disposal costs. You might have to sell the place quickly for as little as 400k after the dust settles so you're left with maybe none of the cash you inherited and a capital loss of 100k which is useless unless you have a gain somewhere else to offset it. That's why I gripe and why I don't want to pay for a solicitor if I don't have to. I *do* appreciate that I am still in a fortunate position overall.
 
Where do you get the tax due as € 87,000?

If the estate is worth € 500,000 + € 100,00 = € 600,000 and is divided amongst the three children, then there is no CAT due (there is a tax-free threshold of € 335,000 per child and each child will be getting € 200,000
 
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