Prime Time will feature sub-prime mortgages tonight

ontour said:
What struck me was an Irish mentality of blaming the system / government/ institutions for problems of our own making. It was the same with the first story about the fishermen and the years of illegal fishing.

The actor's voice of the person with three children portrayed herself as a victim of Start Mortgages. I have no doubt that her husband's job loss was a great strain however it was quickly brushed by at the end of the piece that they 'were forced' to sell some land to pay off the arrears to Start. You can't blame Start for trying to retrieve money from people who want to hang on to their investments rather than pay their mortgage provider.
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I could not agree more with this opinion.
She said her husband lost his job, but she could not work as she had 3 children.
Now, what is wrong with the husband to say that he cannot look after the kids while she works to pay the mortgage.
I dont think people have a gun put to their heads to get mortgages, so if you cannot pay it, you must be prepared to accept the consequences.
The fact that they had assets, the land that they subsequently sold, and would not pay the mortgage, shows a very oldfashioned and blinkered financial acumen.
I feel sorry for people with mortgage problems, but banks are banks, not proxy social welfare providers.
 
She said her husband lost his job, but she could not work as she had 3 children.
Now, what is wrong with the husband to say that he cannot look after the kids while she works to pay the mortgage.
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Here here.

And what a wretched voice the actress had :D:(
 
Why couldn't he get a more competative mortgage if he had land assets ?? Why did they not deal with it sooner.

The whole piece seemed cut to bits and rushed. The practices shown dont surprise me in a business where people are on commission and put under pressure by managers to make sales that are getting thin on the ground.

Brendan looked well though.
 
LDFerguson said:
Excellent point. The unrealistic exaggerated accent of the actress and the point above that they had the resources to pay off the loan all along lost credibility for that section.

Not for a moment condoning what went on in the Irish Mortgage Corporation, but I've respect for Frank Conway for appearing on the show to face the music, even if he didn't have much of substance to say at this point. Can you imagine the tone of the inevitable meeting between the two staff and the directors tomorrow morning? :eek:
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Not much point coming on the TV if you are going to make a bad situation worse. He come across terribly IMO. He was trying to come across outraged but all he got manage was a half arsed defence of the company, which in the face of the video evidence was the last thing he should have been trying to do.
 
Thomas22 said:
Not much point coming on the TV if you are going to make a bad situation worse. He come across terribly IMO. He was trying to come across outraged but all he got manage was a half arsed defence of the company, which in the face of the video evidence was the last thing he should have been trying to do.
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The man did fine. All fuss about nothing. So 2 people in his firm exaggerated a little to help someone onto the mortgage ladder. So what. Sure you can't get a mortgage on an average salary these days, but people have to buy house somehow.
 
ontour said:
What struck me was an Irish mentality of blaming the system / government/ institutions for problems of our own making. It was the same with the first story about the fishermen and the years of illegal fishing.

The actor's voice of the person with three children portrayed herself as a victim of Start Mortgages. I have no doubt that her husband's job loss was a great strain however it was quickly brushed by at the end of the piece that they 'were forced' to sell some land to pay off the arrears to Start. You can't blame Start for trying to retrieve money from people who want to hang on to their investments rather than pay their mortgage provider.
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Well said! The phrase 'You can't eat your cake and have it too' comes to mind.

The cases highlighted were poor examples and it was a poor programme. Media sensationalism. Too little, too late!
 
Dee101 said:
Just watching this program now and one thing that strikes me is - why wasn't this program done a year ago or more?. To warn people of the dangers of getting involved with these lenders/brokers. Bit late now!
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Because doom and gloom is top of the agenda at every rte programming meeting at the moment.

shock horror people who cant afford a mortgage getting in way over their heads!!
neither of the 2 cases mentioned are anyway close to the norm.

465 people taken to court last year, 200 by start. 70 repossession orders for start, half of the total.

OMG, I'm barracading my door now, they're not taking my house!!!

[broken link removed] I Told You So!!!!!
 
Ceatharlach said:
Why couldn't he get a more competative mortgage if he had land assets ?? Why did they not deal with it sooner.
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Indeed, this case has more to do with one couples poor planning and not dealing with the problem when it arose than sub prime mortgages.

They owed money, didn't pay. They even had the means to pay and still didnt!! Then got sued!! Where's the problem with that?
 
charliemacck said:
The man did fine. All fuss about nothing. So 2 people in his firm exaggerated a little to help someone onto the mortgage ladder. So what. Sure you can't get a mortgage on an average salary these days, but people have to buy house somehow.
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Exaggerated a little, your attitude astounds me! They lied to a bank application for credit. There is no point trying to get someone onto the "ladder" if they can't afford to be there.
 
he without sin etc..... well, lets sling one then. At ourselves.... It's easy to forget when you are in a situation like this and you a) want something and b) will do what you have to to get it. If some guy tells you he can do it and then you're complicit in the deal, I don't have a huge amount of sympathy (maybe I'm reading between too many lines but probably not too not far off). What I am concerned about is the 'debt consolidation' situation, where your home is at risk. We haven't seen the start of that yet. Anyway.....

The last thing lenders want to do is try to sell property at the moment. At a loss (perhaps?). The burrowing your head into the sand thing was a GREAT point. Talk to your lender straight away, even if you think there may be trouble ahead... and not just now. (and no, I don't work for one! phew). It's just sensible stuff.

As for the overall thing on primetime last night..... well... Never spend what you can't afford, and I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who have been told that they will have nothing to worry about. It's not the government's fault, it's not the lenders' faults. I would suggest greed has a large part to play here.

Oh, and bye the way, we should have seen in coming a few years ago: link here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3478635.stm

That was 2004 when it got silly! Forewarned etc....
 
Did anyone else notice that the first time that Brendan's name came up, it had 'www.itsyourmoney.ie' beneath it? The second time it had AAM. Is Brendan double jobbing? and so many poor folk out there who can't find a job appropriate to their lifestyle choices!
 
Thomas22 said:
Exaggerated a little, your attitude astounds me! They lied to a bank application for credit. There is no point trying to get someone onto the "ladder" if they can't afford to be there.
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I don't consider it lying just exaggeration, the reporter pretended he had a good job didn't he. This is just more property bashing from the usual bunch of lefties in RTE. Programmes like this are sending us into recession. Its quite right that pessimistic nonsense like that is banned from this site.
 
Sorry. Had to.

There's no wrong or right here, just judgement calls. On the individuals concerned and the lenders. Could have gone very well at one time. Unfortunatley not now. Always focus on the cashflow first my friends.
 
I thought this programme was very very poor to be fair.
It was surely too late and should have been made/ investigated at the height of the boom when it was obvious it was going on. I was one of those people who fluffed my way through the application with the help of a broker - not so blatant as the ones on Prime time though. I knew we had the capacity to make the repayments so thought hey if the bank does not look at each application properly we can have the house we want - and it worked. I don't blame the people for doing it to get the house, sure the broker lied to the bank and the bank turned a blind eye.
But regarding the lady who had 3 children - there was most likely a reason why the couple had gone with this lender in the first place. And i thought it was odd that she kept referring to the man / bailiff whatever he was, being old and elderly.
 
pennypitstop said:
I thought this programme was very very poor to be fair.
It was surely too late and should have been made/ investigated at the height of the boom when it was obvious it was going on. I was one of those people who fluffed my way through the application with the help of a broker - not so blatant as the ones on Prime time though. I knew we had the capacity to make the repayments so thought hey if the bank does not look at each application properly we can have the house we want - and it worked. I don't blame the people for doing it to get the house, sure the broker lied to the bank and the bank turned a blind eye.
But regarding the lady who had 3 children - there was most likely a reason why the couple had gone with this lender in the first place. And i thought it was odd that she kept referring to the man / bailiff whatever he was, being old and elderly.
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I agree 100%. If this program had any merit they would have disclosed the reasons why this "lady" went down the subprime route in the first place - the usual suspects being either previous bad credit or unproven income.
The actors voice was probably accurately reflecting the womans over emphasis on the fact that she had "three small children" - it was almost as if she shouldn't have to deal with the situation at all, the poor kids are traumatised (with full thick cork accent)
 
The show's part on "sub-prime in ireland" made for good watching!!!!

It probably presented glossed up extreme situations,
- which seemed to have annoyed alot of posters
but thats OK cause it HAS TO BE for TV viewing and
RTE is being consistent giving the view from other side, ie opposite to the
SPIN of banks and their so called chief economists, estate agents, construction, etc

The ugly prospect of repossessions and court house meetings
is pretty scary and depressing - how will Irish society handle it??
BUT THATS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU COME TO END THE OF A CREDIT DRIVEN BOOM!

I think it highlights the massive financial illiteracy in Ireland

Ireland needs more "prime time" educational shows for the public,
the shows shouldnt be SCARY or for pure entertainment - like last night
and any Eddie Hobbs shows,
but SIMPLE and FUN, but realistic, in which anyone can get value from.
( I'd like to see Brendan get a role in this - did very well last night)

If Irish people were more financially educated they could see the POSSIBLE truths
behind alot of the over optimistic promises and offers that unaccountable and
greed-driven financial professionals have been dishing out last few years we wouldnt
be looking into this economic abyss.
- ie "property will never go down", "rent is dead money", "stocks will
keep going up from these highs", "you can afford a bigger mortgage"

people naturally love to boast to anyone how much their house is gone up
and waffle about their greed driven plans for making more paper money,

but when it goes bad (stock market crash, mortgage arrears) their fear
will cause them to ditch accountability and sometimes just pretend these losses and arrears
simply dont exist!! (for not selling when things were rosey)

The pain has only started!
JR.
 
I felt we didn't get the whole story and that the couple should have been advised to pay the 5000 arrears before going to court where it turned into 18,000 they owed.

They didn't say what steps Start had taken before the court case came about as the woman led us to believe it was out of the blue with no warnings.

I felt that maybe the land was family land (rather than their land) and had been sold to assist them rather than the land being theirs but that was my opinion.
 
charliemacck said:
The man did fine. All fuss about nothing. So 2 people in his firm exaggerated a little to help someone onto the mortgage ladder. So what. Sure you can't get a mortgage on an average salary these days, but people have to buy house somehow.
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Ah Charlie I think you'll find the reason people can't afford a house in the first place is because they're being bid against by other people whose incomes are being exaggerated.
Banks/Brokers/Buyers should be forced to adhere to a strict policy of verifying disposable income and ensuring that in a stressed situation there's enough left to live on after payment of the mortgage (and a pension contribution in a perfect society).
If everyone had played by these rules then more or less the same people would be in the same houses now most likely with 25-30% less of a mortgage.
 
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