President of Ireland or President of the Republic of Ireland?

Purple

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Fair enough. I think the negotiations will end up with no legacy debt and a complicated fudge on public service pensions. Hard to see a UI paying UDR pensions, for instance!

Now, to matters more directly affecting individual taxpayers up there. Would there be an equalisation of taxes? How would they (of Unionist or Republican persuasion both) feel about paying an extra 20 to 30% for their cars. Or doubling the cost of a bottle of sparkling wine. Or paying the high rate of tax at €35k rather than €60k. Any takers for USC I wonder? Or a far more punitive CAT regime?
It'll be interesting to see if people Doyn Soyth will be willing to subsidise better services and lower taxes for the Nordies while the UVF is bombing Dublin.
 

Peanuts20

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Would we end up on both sides with a "solidarity tax" like they did in Germany?. That was 5.5% on income
 

Duke of Marmalade

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Would we end up on both sides with a "solidarity tax" like they did in Germany?. That was 5.5% on income
I think what @Baby boomer is highlighting is that we almost have two different systems. We are a high wage/high tax/high social welfare economy whereas the North is Low/Low/Low which doesn't necessarily mean that we are better off (except for those on social welfare and low incomes). It would be one heck of a challenge to merge the two systems.
 

Baby boomer

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I think what @Baby boomer is highlighting is that we almost have two different systems. We are a high wage/high tax/high social welfare economy whereas the North is Low/Low/Low which doesn't necessarily mean that we are better off (except for those on social welfare and low incomes). It would be one heck of a challenge to merge the two systems.
That's it in a nutshell. Ironic, in a way, when you consider that poor, working class loyalists, who have most to gain from the Southern high social welfare rates are the very people most vociferously opposed to a UI. On the other hand, well-off Nationalists would have a lot to lose under a Southern tax regime. Perverse incentives, indeed!
 

Purple

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Would we end up on both sides with a "solidarity tax" like they did in Germany?. That was 5.5% on income
Again, the North is a much bigger entity relative to this country than East Germany was relative to West Germany.
 

cremeegg

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It'll be interesting to see if people Doyn Soyth will be willing to subsidise better services and lower taxes for the Nordies while the UVF is bombing Dublin.
That ridiculous habit of the Duke of deliberately misspelling words and names has nothing to recommend it.
 

Purple

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That ridiculous habit of the Duke of deliberately misspelling words and names has nothing to recommend it.
I like accents but 'soyth' and 'doyne' are mispronunciations, not an accent.

I used to spend a lot of time in Aberdeen. I was sharing a taxi with an American once. As we passed a row of very run down houses the taxi driver said "I dinna kin hoi e abide eair"
My fellow passenger looked as me and asked me in a quiet voice what language the driver was speaking. I explained that it was English and he'd said that he didn't understand how anyone could live in those houses.
The Nordies aren't far off that. On the other hand we Dub's speak perfect English, ye know wha' I'm sayin' loik?
 

Duke of Marmalade

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That ridiculous habit of the Duke of deliberately misspelling words and names has nothing to recommend it.
Which reminds me, Simon Varadkar should really stay out of the EU/Brit bun fight on the NI protocol. Are they trying to out-Green Fierce Doherty? Imagine if the Italian prime minister, for example, were to make cheap jibes about how can you trust the Brits on free trade deals, that would lead to one hell of an international incident. At least our Teashop hasn't been so nigh eve to descend to citing Dominic Cummins in a Green anti Brit slanging match.
 
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WolfeTone

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Which reminds me, Simon Varadkar should really stay out of the EU/Brit bun fight on the NI protocol

Ok, I'm back in.

Personally I think Coveney and Vradakar have played a blinder in this whole affair. Unexpectedly I have to say, but most welcome.
Coveney in particular has read the mood music. The sea border is a stroke of diplomatic genius.
The border is always going to be a contentious issue in Ireland, but the least contentious is the sea border.
I was listening to Bertie on Radio 1 and he complimenting how NI business people were very clever people. Clearly playing on the emerging sentiment, backed by trade figures, that NI is gaining a boost from the NI Protocol.
And why wouldn't it?
If you want the NI Protocol to work (as do the EU and Irish government) then why not put the energy and resources into directing increased north/south trade?
On the other hand if you don't want NIP to work (Loyalism) , or have no plan to make NIP work (British government) then you may be inclined to indulge the flag-waving, sovereignty battle cry as it becomes apparent there is no Brexit plan.
As John Hume said "you can't eat a flag".

Why not offer solutions, as Bertie asked?
They have none.

British government is using NI every bit as the pawn in the overall Brexit shambles. It is a useful distraction from all the other issues arising in England with HGV drivers and energy price increases.

The Tories blamed the EU for so much that was wrong when they were in the EU.
Now they are out of it, who is to blame? The EU.
NIP is just a convenient distraction.

NI is being played, once again.
Time to rid Ireland of Tories once and for all. There are too many good English people to allow them any further influence.
Border poll now!
 

Baby boomer

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Personally I think Coveney and Vradakar have played a blinder in this whole affair.
Agree entirely. Bertie spot on too.

......Time to rid Ireland of Tories once and for all.
Border poll now!
I'd be interested in your views on how we integrate our high wage, high tax, high prices, high welfare economic system with the low wage, low tax, low prices, low welfare system north of the border. Which bits do we level up / level down? Or do we maintain separate (maybe federal) systems?
 

Duke of Marmalade

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@WolfeTone for senior members of our government to make cheap shots about you can’t trust the Brits on trade deals, the sort of cheap shots that might be typical on AAM, is not helpful. It does not help resolve the dispute. It does not help relations between ourselves and the UK. It is also blatantly a domestic electioneering stunt (successfully) out playing SF on their home turf - heck they even have you on board.
I suppose that most things in NI become sectarian like the name of their second city or the name of their so called peace accord but Coveney in particular has played a big cynical part in making the NI protocol a totally sectarian issue.
 

Purple

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Ok, I'm back in.

Personally I think Coveney and Vradakar have played a blinder in this whole affair. Unexpectedly I have to say, but most welcome.
Coveney in particular has read the mood music. The sea border is a stroke of diplomatic genius.
The border is always going to be a contentious issue in Ireland, but the least contentious is the sea border.
I was listening to Bertie on Radio 1 and he complimenting how NI business people were very clever people. Clearly playing on the emerging sentiment, backed by trade figures, that NI is gaining a boost from the NI Protocol.
And why wouldn't it?
If you want the NI Protocol to work (as do the EU and Irish government) then why not put the energy and resources into directing increased north/south trade?
On the other hand if you don't want NIP to work (Loyalism) , or have no plan to make NIP work (British government) then you may be inclined to indulge the flag-waving, sovereignty battle cry as it becomes apparent there is no Brexit plan.
As John Hume said "you can't eat a flag".

Why not offer solutions, as Bertie asked?
They have none.

British government is using NI every bit as the pawn in the overall Brexit shambles. It is a useful distraction from all the other issues arising in England with HGV drivers and energy price increases.

The Tories blamed the EU for so much that was wrong when they were in the EU.
Now they are out of it, who is to blame? The EU.
NIP is just a convenient distraction.
I agree with all of that.
NI is being played, once again.
Time to rid Ireland of Tories once and for all. There are too many good English people to allow them any further influence.
And that.
Border poll now!
But not that.
 

cremeegg

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@WolfeTone for senior members of our government to make cheap shots about you can’t trust the Brits on trade deals, the sort of cheap shots that might be typical on AAM, is not helpful.
Do you not think that the behaviour of the British government has been untrustworthy. Signing up to an agreement then immediately seeking to renegotiate it. Openly admitting an intention to break international law.

Or do you just think it is unhelpful to say so.

is not helpful. It does not help resolve the dispute. It does not help relations between ourselves and the UK.

Surely on something so basic as this and something so contrary to the image as a reliable partner that Britain used to project an image that was largely recognised by many countries in Europe, it is the role of a friend to point out behaviour which is eroding trust in Britain internationally.

Surely the biggest advance in relations between Britain and Ireland, and between Britain and Europe would for Britain to recognise its untrustworthy behaviour and the damage it is doing.
 

cremeegg

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Isn't that what Dev did?
It may have been what Ireland did, although Dev never signed, and 100 years later some people are still not over it.

In fairness the treaty negotiators were told that if they didn't sign there would be 'total and terrible war' or something to that effect. Britain was hardly threatened with war if it didn't sign up to Brexit.
 

Duke of Marmalade

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Do you not think that the behaviour of the British government has been untrustworthy. Signing up to an agreement then immediately seeking to renegotiate it. Openly admitting an intention to break international law.
I agree with Frostie that the EU did not want Brexit to work (neither do I). The EU had them over a barrel, they thought imposing ridiculous NI protocol requirements might reverse engines. Article 16 was built in as a clear sign that the Brits would renegotiate when they were not over that barrel.
Or do you just think it is unhelpful to say so.
Very much so. Is Italy saying you can't trust the Brits? Is Estonia? It's none of our business, except maybe to side with NI who we claim to want to join with us. It is cheap anti Brit rhetoric aimed at a domestic audience. Only good thing is they stole the ground from SF.
 
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