power of attorney

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alcatraz999

New Member
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hi, im at my wits end with sibling....

- mum has poa set up - not enacted yet but trying to now as she has dementia and condition is worsening
- mum very vunerable, very poor memory now
- sibling is now trying to change the poa to themselves
- Sibling has brought mum to dr and to solicitor
- i found out and was at solicitor with mum who adv she was ok with me as poa and did not want it changed
- solicitor recommended i proceed with enacting the poa which i am trying to
- sibling AGAIN has mum at gp and i suspect solicitor too
- gp involved and confused as i am requesting referral for poa and sibling wants gp to state mum has capacity

I believe the root of this is that sibling does not want family home sold to pay for care, will not discuss with me at all.
id like to talk and figure out whats best as long term care is inevitable and will need to be paid for somehow and it sure aint cheap.

is there some sort of mediation that could be done here? with solicitor, myself, sibling present maybe and mum? im just at wits end,
ive been called by both gp and solicitor and dont know what to do as mum will agree with whoever she is with - i know she is not requesting
to change the poa and that this is down to sibling.
 
Is this a 'power of attorney' or an 'enduring power of attorney'?

If its EPOA when was it executed as in put together with all the consents, notices, statements by legal and medical practitioners as there are now two streams since May.
 
Sorry to hear of your Mum's declining health, and your woes regarding it.

The first thing that needs to be established here is quite simple, from an outsider's point of view.

That is whether or not your your Mum currently has capacity, and that is for the relevant medical practitioner to state, and him or her only. If said practitioner is hesitant well then a referral to a consultant might be in order.

If she does not currently have capacity, well the situation is as it is.

However, if she still retains capacity then it is for her to decide. Your family solicitor is surely best placed to advise, once capacity is determined.
 
@WizardDr is correct, first question to answer is if this is an Enduring Power of Attorney.

If it is then you follow the steps to get it registered.

The whole point of the EPA is to prevent this carry on.

If your sibling is a notified party, they can object to the registration of the EPA; but again there is a defined process to be followed. Not via ad hoc phone calls or visits.
 
I agree, you Mum must have capacity to make a decision to sign the EPOA in the first place. The doctor must be able to determine that your mum understands questions and makes rational decisions based on her own wishes. It sounds like you have this and the solicitor has told you proceed. There are a fair few documents to be gathered and registered.

Your suggestion is valid that you all go together to the solicitor for the final determination. You can say why you think it should be you, your sibling can do the same thing. Then your solicitor will discuss with your mum alone and allow her to make the decision. Of course the solicitor needs to be assured that your mum has capacity to make an independent decision, and that she is making it without undue influence.

Best of luck, but time is not on your side here. And neither are relations with your sibling going to help anything.
 
@Clamball - my reading of the OP is that the EPA was already done by parent; and the day has now arrived where it has to be registered.
 
You could be correct, but it has to be registered within 3 months of signing, according to Citizens Advice

If that is all that is left to do, then it should not matter how much the sibling jumps up and down, just make the final step and it is done.
 
My experience / knowledge was under the previous system & registering the EPA meant that the day had arrived where the donor could no longer manage their affairs. Naturally there was no time limit since no one could predict when that might happen.

The new system may differ.
 
If you are applying for Fair Deal, the family home does not need to be sold now to pay for care. A percentage of the house value will be required but there is a loan scheme so that it doesn't have to be paid until after the nursing home resident passes away and the house is sold. You could end up paying a lot more for nursing home costs if the house has been sold and there are large cash assets.
Regarding registering the EPOA, the doctor makes the decision regarding your mum's capacity. She must have capacity when the initial paperwork is drawn up. But it can't be registered until she has lost capacity. When we wished to register an EPOA for my parent, the GP wasn't happy to sign off on it as my parent had declined so quickly after the initial paperwork was done. But the Geriatrician did it after a video consultation (during COVID).
The public health nurses are usually very good. If she/he is not involved already - it's worth contacting them. They'll need to do assessments which are required when applying for Fair Deal. They are a great source of information and common sense in these situations. They have seen it all before and can be very helpful and practical - while most of us (family members) are emotional and overwhelmed.
 
The above is my understanding too. IANAL but that's how it was explained by our family Solicitor to my sister and I when we were being granted POA jointly by our late Mam.

Hence my earlier post regarding the OP's mother's current capacity. I don't think the OP's post makes it clear that at this point in time her mother does lack capacity.

The OP may feel that her mother no longer has capacity to change her mind, and it is perfectly possible (s)he is right.

But regardless of opinions held, and not to be overly harsh on either sibling, their opinions count for nought. It is solely a matter for an appropriate medical practitioner.
 
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POC said:
You could end up paying a lot more for nursing home costs if the house has been sold and there are large cash assets.
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This has changed in the last year (2 years?). There is a similar cap on proceeds from sale of house.
 
WizardDr said:
Is this a 'power of attorney' or an 'enduring power of attorney'?

If its EPOA when was it executed as in put together with all the consents, notices, statements by legal and medical practitioners as there are now two streams since May.
Click to expand...
Just over 2 years ago
 
Zobeda said:
Sorry to hear of your Mum's declining health, and your woes regarding it.

The first thing that needs to be established here is quite simple, from an outsider's point of view.

That is whether or not your your Mum currently has capacity, and that is for the relevant medical practitioner to state, and him or her only. If said practitioner is hesitant well then a referral to a consultant might be in order.

If she does not currently have capacity, well the situation is as it is.

However, if she still retains capacity then it is for her to decide. Your family solicitor is surely best placed to advise, once capacity is determined.
Click to expand...
The gp is concerned as sibling says mum ok, i think not and want referral to consultant. Sibling i think may have told gp i am up to no good which is not the case
WizardDr said:
Is this a 'power of attorney' or an 'enduring power of attorney'?

If its EPOA when was it executed as in put together with all the consents, notices, statements by legal and medical practitioners as there are now two streams since May.
Click to expand...
Its enduring poa
 
DannyBoyD said:
@WizardDr is correct, first question to answer is if this is an Enduring Power of Attorney.

If it is then you follow the steps to get it registered.

The whole point of the EPA is to prevent this carry on.

If your sibling is a notified party, they can object to the registration of the EPA; but again there is a defined process to be followed. Not via ad hoc phone calls or visits.
Click to expand...
Im trying but gp rang me annoyed, sibling had mum in to get capacity confirmed so she could take her to the solicitor. Then im requesting referral to the consultant so that the full assessment takes place. I cant do anything without getting the referral to the consultant and gp seems reluctant at this time
 
alcatraz999 said:
Im trying but gp rang me annoyed, sibling had mum in to get capacity confirmed so she could take her to the solicitor. Then im requesting referral to the consultant so that the full assessment takes place. I cant do anything without getting the referral to the consultant and gp seems reluctant at this time
Click to expand...
In the meantime sibling taking advantage of mums dimishing capacity and trying to get poa changed to her.

I feel so helpless as i cannot stop her seeing mum, or taking her to solicitor and dr apts. Im going to ring solicitor as i dont know if i am still even poa at this point in time. But i guess if poa was changed to my sibling i would have to reveive a notice letter and i havent yet.

If it is changed i can object on grounds of dimishing capacity cant i? Im really worried that the gp wont do the referral to the consultant.

To be clear, if consultant says mum ok, then i fully accept this - i just really really need her to see one and then its put to bed as far as im concerned.
 
Your post is very confusing.

Let me see if I understand this.

An enduring power of attorney naming you is already in place and has been for the last two years.

Your sibling did not object to the EPA when it was set up.

You believe the EPA should now be registered as your parent no longer has the capacity to manage their own affairs.

Is this correct so far?
 
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Your posts are really confusing.

So you have enduring power of attorney put in place 2 years ago.

You now think it is time to act on the enduring power of attorney and take control of your mothers affairs. Your solicitor has recommended this course of action to you.

Your sister feels your Mum has full capacity and wants to reverse your epoa and set herself up as epoa herself.

Let her do what she likes, all she is doing is creating confusion and upset. I would think it would take a high court to reverse your epoa, so let her go that route if she feels that is what she needs to do.

All you need to do is act on your epoa.

1. Write to the gp practice saying that you are overseeing your mothers medical care. And the only person who can make appointments or ask for referrals is you. Give them a copy of your epoa. Copy your sister and solicitor.

Then keep doing this if anything else pops up. You have the power to protect your mothers interest and prevent her from being confused or easily lead etc., so just act on it. Try not to get too emotional or upset at your sisters actions, she has her own reasons. You have a responsibility to act to protect your mothers interests only. Follow the solicitors advice.
 
DannyBoyD said:
Your post is very confusing.

Let me see if I understand this.

An enduring power of attorney naming you is already in place and has been for the last two years.

Your sibling did not object to the EPA when it was set up.

You believe the EPA should now be registered as your parent no longer has the capacity to manage their own affairs.

Is this correct so far?
Click to expand...
Yes you are correct, sorry for the confusion
 
Ok so forget about the sibling for now

Make two appointments - just for you; one for the GP and one for the solicitor who drew up the EPA.

Bring along all your paperwork; show it to GP.

Explain that you believe your parent has now reached the point where they can no longer manage their affairs and the process to register the EPA should be started.

Follow up both appointments with a written letter confirming your instruction.

You can't stop your sibling acting the maggot in the meantime; but you now have a clear record should it be needed in the future.

Edit: I see Clamballs reply & they have posted pretty much the same advice; but I think Clamballs reading is that you already have control of your parents affairs and my reading is that you don't.

If I could give you some other tips.

Being an attorney for a parent is not an easy task; as well as being emotionally difficult, you have (quite rightly) to be very careful in your actions and record keeping.

Get yourself a couple of binders, a home printer if you don't already have one & set up a separate email address that you will use only for your parents affairs. Keep a printed copy of every thing & make sure every bank transaction has a paper document to support it.
 
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Clamball said:
Your posts are really confusing.

So you have enduring power of attorney put in place 2 years ago.

You now think it is time to act on the enduring power of attorney and take control of your mothers affairs. Your solicitor has recommended this course of action to you.

Your sister feels your Mum has full capacity and wants to reverse your epoa and set herself up as epoa herself.

Let her do what she likes, all she is doing is creating confusion and upset. I would think it would take a high court to reverse your epoa, so let her go that route if she feels that is what she needs to do.

All you need to do is act on your epoa.

1. Write to the gp practice saying that you are overseeing your mothers medical care. And the only person who can make appointments or ask for referrals is you. Give them a copy of your epoa. Copy your sister and solicitor.

Then keep doing this if anything else pops up. You have the power to protect your mothers interest and prevent her from being confused or easily lead etc., so just act on it. Try not to get too emotional or upset at your sisters actions, she has her own reasons. You have a responsibility to act to protect your mothers interests only. Follow the solicitors advice.
Click to expand...
EPOA not registered yet, im trying to do this
DannyBoyD said:
Ok so forget about the sibling for now

Make two appointments - just for you; one for the GP and one for the solicitor who drew up the EPA.

Bring along all your paperwork; show it to GP.

Explain that you believe your parent has now reached the point where they can no longer manage their affairs and the process to register the EPA should be started.

Follow up both appointments with a written letter confirming your instruction.

You can't stop your sibling acting the maggot in the meantime; but you now have a clear record should it be needed in the future.

Edit: I see Clamballs reply & they have posted pretty much the same advice; but I think Clamballs reading is that you already have control of your parents affairs and my reading is that you don't.

If I could give you some other tips.

Being an attorney for a parent is not an easy task; as well as being emotionally difficult, you have (quite rightly) to be very careful in your actions and record keeping.

Get yourself a couple of binders, a home printer if you don't already have one & set up a separate email address that you will use only for your parents affairs. Keep a printed copy of every thing & make sure every bank transaction has a paper document to support it.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much. I will do both of those things. I do not have control yet but am trying to get it. Its all very upsetting.
 
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