Plumbing issues - which one is right?

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OhPinchy

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I’ve been having a guy I kind of know do the re-plumbing on my house. It’s a total re-plumb replacing the previous gas system with a newer gas system and moving the old boiler from the back bedroom upstairs to the utility room at the back of the house downstairs (actually using a new gas boiler).

Basically the guy has let me down this week – I needed it all done this week as I wanted to move into the house tomorrow, but he didn’t show and so we can’t move in, so I’m not too happy with him.

I got onto another fella I know and he has just had a look at it. He said he thought the job the other guy did was a disgrace. Some things he mentioned:

-there is no sign that the gas feed has been re-directed to the utility room where the boiler will be. I’ve just re-slabbed nearly all walls and ceilings so this is a problem. The gas pipe must have been running to the back bedroom and luckily I haven’t slabbed the ceiling below it yet so should be able to re-direct the pipe through the joists into the adjacent utility room – but I’ll then have to leave it exposed in the utility room due to this mistake. How big a deal should I make with the original guy about this (its actually two of them brothers working together – one qualified, the other not and I think he has done most of the work)? They’ve made a big deal about ‘only charging me time’ for the job, but that’s €300 each per day so its not for nothing.

-the new guy (who will qualify in 6 months) said they have piped all appliances for the kitchen and utility and the downstairs toilet directly off the mains and not from the cold water tank. He says this is very bad practice, illegal in fact as it could possibly mean my house could contaminate the public supply. How big a deal is this – is the original guy really that wrong or is the new guy just making a big deal of it (though it does sound like poor practice to me)?

- new guy said original guys’ work is just messy, and another example is he was going to put the shower pump (a Stuart Turner 55) above the cistern in the hot press, whereas the new guy said it should go on the floor – though to be honest I’m not sure it could fit on the floor. He also has the pipes feeding into where the boiler will be right beside the feeds for the sink in the utility room. He was also going to run the wastes for the sink and bath into a separate hopper and downpipe into a separate drain, whereas new guy says best thing to do is strap them directly into the 4 inch waste from toilet and have it all sealed.

I’m just looking to try get an accurate picture of which one is right and which one is in the wrong, thanks.
 
Firstly I'm not a plumber but I am a professional working in the building industry, working for a large contractor. As a "hobby" I do my own plumbing and a few nixers also. I'm very familair with the Building Regulations and the Bord Gais installers manual. Now to address some of your concerns:

Every plumber has his own way of doing things but-
1. You say the original installer seems to have made no provision for the new gas feed. I presume the original gas meter and shut off position are unchanged? I also assume he wasn't intending on routing the new gas feed externally (unusual in a domestic situation). You are entitled to ask why this has been overlooked, surfaced mounted pipework is not acceptable when the opportunity to conceal it was readily available earlier in the job. Very hard to comment authoritively without seeing the job.

2.As for feeding all appliances directly off the cold water mains, this is definitely a no-no. If the main supply were interupted (during a dry spell or maintenance for example) there is a possibility that dirty water could be drawn back into the mains by back siphonage, this is particularly the case with bidets, wc cisterns, wash basins and the like. However, occasionally I have come across a downstairs toilet which had it's cistern fed directly off the mains, as I say not good practice but if the cistern were fitted with a double check, non return valve the risk of contamination would probably be nil. Also the high water pressure would probably shorten the life of the ball valve. In the ideal world only the main drinking water tap (kitchen sink and maybe cold tap on utility sink also) plus the cold feed to the storage tank in the attic, dishwasher and washing machine should be fed off the mains supply. Toilets and wash handbasins should definitely not, their supply should be from the lower pressure cold water storage tank only.

3. As for wastes this is a personal preference issue. Presumably the hoppers you refer to are to be located externally with 40mm white wastes punching thro' walls and discharging into same? This is the traditional way of plumbing waste pipework, it doesn't look as neat (maybe) as the strap and boss method but it does work and there is probably less likelihood of blockages, plus access for cleaning, if needs be, is easy. The strap and boss method is a more modern approach, brought about by advances in plastic plumbing in the last decade or so, but for it to be effective proper traps are necessary, especially on showers.

There probably is no absolute right and wrong here, without seeing the job it's very hard to comment on competency here, but good neat plumbing, with pipe runs well laid out and crossing pipes and joints kept to a minimum is pretty easy to spot. Bad plumbing could mean- pipe runs badly laid out, taking up a lot of space, too much jointing compound/ tape visible, too much plastic (subjective), lack of isolation valves, lack of clipping/ unsupported runs etc. Basically bad plumbing, to my eye anyway, is a constant visual irritant in addition to being "bad".

Meet with your original plumber, ask some pertinent questions, you'll know by his demeanour whether he is competent and confident to undertake the work. Whatever you do give him the right of reply.
 
A non return valve can be bought for very little money , it is common standard in the rest of the civilised world to have the entire system pressurised - heating and fresh/domestic water . For hygene reasons .
€ 300.- per day ??!! You can get 2 master plumbers/heating engineers from Germany flown in for that money . Fully taxed and insured . Black labour doesn't pay .
The gas pipe was propably not touched due to fear of the job/incompetence ?
 
Sorry I can't help you with your query but it seems to me that we could do with a representative body for plumbers in the same way as you have RECI for electricians. Can Board Gas provide you with a list of competent installers?
 
Our American fridge is fed directly off the mains.....you reckon this is an issue..i assume not as I think its needs quite a high pressure and it wouldn't get it from being gravity fed by the tank?
 
To Demoivre : Micheal Meehan set up " The Irish Plumbing And Heating Association - IPHA " . Check the web, I don't know how they are doing .There was an article in the "Construct Ireland " magazine issue no. 9 .
 
Legend99, you're fridge should be mains fed as it is providing drinking water and or ice. These should never be fed from a gravity tank.
Leo
 
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